Waterheaters - tankless or not

fallingwickets · Post by **fallingwickets** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:37 am

When I replaced mine last year, I looked into this and didnt make sense for a 1 or 2 person household, and number of people notwithstanding, the economics / benefits seemed hoodoo like

The one thing that turned me off completely was the very wary reviews consumer reports gave the units.

clive

Dapper Dad · Post by **Dapper Dad** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:04 am

I happen to sell tankless water heaters and tank style water heaters!

Big applause to the forum for picking out the 2 best brands!

One difference between Navien and Rinnai is how they are vented. Rinnai must be vented with special pipe (made by Rinnai) that is very expensive. Navien can be vented with PVC (inexpensive) pipe. If you aren't mounting your heater on an outside wall this can make a big difference in your contractors quote.

I describe "going tankless" as a lifestyle decision. The federal rebate is gone so it is highly unlikely that you are going to recoup the cost difference over the life of the unit.

However tankless is a great fit for households that don't ever want to run out of hot water and don't have excessive flow rate demands. It is more common with empty nestors that don't have the possiblity of 3 showers going at the same time.

Let me know if you have any qestions, I do this for a living. I only sell to contractors so I can't "make you a deal," but I would be more than happy to help you on your search. I must say I am VERY impressed with our members. The guidance on this post is dead on.

Post by **Sam** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:07 am

I am going to go with a 50 gal tank, since it is wife and I and I will not recover the costs.

Will call Home Depot to see what they quote for the job

Dapper Dad · Post by **Dapper Dad** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:29 am

LOL, a brief journey. Most of America agrees with you. I sold a ton of these when the federal rebate was around. This year more people are choosing the tank style (myself included) after crunching the numbers.

If you are buying a tank style water heater I find that the "super efficient energy star etc models" typically will not recoup the extra cost either. Pay close attention to the estimated yearly costs and the fine print of the warranty (if you buy from Home Depot).

Dapper Dad · Post by **Dapper Dad** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:42 am

I just can't help myself.....

If you're looking for a good plumbing contractor in Memphis I would call Max Dignowity 909-283-7662. Low overhead, fair pricing, quality work. He may be a better option for you compared to HD.

AACJ · Post by **AACJ** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:18 am

Oh, I thought the Federal Govt rebates were still there...did they end at the end of the 2011?

Is there an instantaneous that does NOT need a power vent in case of power outages?

Dapper Dad · Post by **Dapper Dad** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:32 pm

AACJ wrote:Oh, I thought the Federal Govt rebates were still there...did they end at the end of the 2011?

Is there an instantaneous that does NOT need a power vent in case of power outages?

Yes, the "up to $1500" rebate is done. I don't know of any heaters that don't require a power source. Water powered sump pumps yes...but not heaters.

druphus · Post by **druphus** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:46 pm

Bosch makes some gas tankless units that don't require an electrical connection (520HN; 520PN; and 330PN), but they are old-tech (i.e. non-condensing).

Dapper Dad · Post by **Dapper Dad** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:56 pm

druphus wrote:Bosch makes some gas tankless units that don't require an electrical connection (520HN; 520PN; and 330PN), but they are old-tech (i.e. non-condensing).

My company used to carry the Bosch Aquastar line about 10 years ago but had so many quality issues that we dropped them. They later popped up at the box stores. They would not be my first choice.

jww · Post by **jww** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:43 pm

In the end -- ecology aside, what I like best about the tankless is when we do have guests or family visiting - being on the low end of the shower-and-bath-totem-pole, I no longer have cold showers or have to wait for a tank to heat up.

ShadowsDad · Post by **ShadowsDad** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:25 pm

Sam, with just 2 people using it I'd put a timer on it to basically make one tank of hot water per day. It should be plenty. That'll save you $ right there. If it can be insulated further I'd have them do it, or do it yourself. The payback on the $10 of fiberglass insulation for it will be very quick. I'd add 8" of insulation rather than buy a kit that only adds 1" of the stuff.

Heck, we had a 30 gallon tank and only made one tank of water per day and it was plenty. I let it come on about an hour before we rose in the AM and had it turn off about 30 minutes after the last of us left for the day. That gave us a hot tank for the remainder. I showered at night, the wife in the morning and it was all we ever needed. Timers shouldn't be expensive. It was electric so we paid through the nose, but the timer did help. You'll need to disable the timer if you have guests. Our timer had a manual "on" switch. I just needed to remember to use it.

I agree Wendell. There are advantages beyond any possible $ savings.

They make huge sense for new construction too IMO. While lines are going in, just put in another. Or for hydronic systems, even more sense. The same unit makes the hot domestic water and the space heat through radiant floors. The tiny box on the wall does it all and no need for a furnace.

Power failures.... Ours works fine when our PV (solar) electric system is running and current draw from the batteries is minimal. It should work fine with even a minimal generator. But even with a tank type will that work during a power failure? Doesn't the thermostat require juice? I don't know, I'm asking.

maskaggs · Post by **maskaggs** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:45 pm

jww wrote:In the end -- ecology aside, what I like best about the tankless is when we do have guests or family visiting - being on the low end of the shower-and-bath-totem-pole, I no longer have cold showers or have to wait for a tank to heat up.

When my mother and grandparents came to visit us in our new home, everyone insisted (of course) my grandmother go first. Much to her (and our dismay), the pilot light on the water heater had gone out. Not one to complain, she endured probably the coldest shower of her life before she told anyone about the lack of hot water

druphus · Post by **druphus** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:46 pm

ShadowsDad wrote:But even with a tank type will that work during a power failure? Doesn't the thermostat require juice? I don't know, I'm asking.

A Gas Tank Water Heater does not require any electrical power.

However, in the event of a power failure, a shower is usually not part of my agenda. YMMV