Comparison of Current Popular Shave Cream

[Craig_From_Cincy]

The Michter's that I own was produced in Pennsylvania, it was sold under the A H Hirsch brand. I worked for the company that purchased all of the remaining stocks of Michter's bourbon in bulk. It was stored at the Ancient Age distillery (now called Buffalo Trace) in neutral glass lined steel tanks and bottled on demand. there was a 16 and a 20 year old product, with the 16 year being the superior product. The Hirsch name came from Adolf Hirsch, a former distilling executive who had originally commissioned the bourbon in 1974. The company that I worked for sold the whole lot to Preiss Importers who continue buying whiskies (many from Canada and mostly mediocre) and selling them under the Hirsch labels for ridiculous prices.

[Squire]

Right on all points Craig which is why I said if your label was Mitchter's. I considered mentioning Hirsch but didn't want to get away from Pennco or double the length of my post.

And yes, the 16 yr was the better.

[lanolite]

Squire - You may be interested to know that Jack Daniel's (not Jack Daniels) has been produced in Lynchburg TN since 1875. As I recall, the bottle says "population 361," contributing to the idea that America's largest selling whiskey is produced in a hamlet in rural Tennessee. 361 may have indeed been the population in 1875, but the 2000 census lists it as 5740 -- still not a big town. I've been there.

Tennessean here -- there's a little confusion about Lynchburg's population because Lynchburg and Moore County have a unified government. The population of the entire county was indeed 5740 in 2000 (6362 in 2010) but Lynchburg itself still has only 572 souls, according to the city website.

If you'd like a fairly inexpensive bourbon treat, by the way, you could do worse than find yourself some Johnny Drum, made by a comparatively small family-owned distillery in Bardstown, Ky. It's distribution is limited to a few southern states (Ky., Tenn, Ga., and S.C. as I recall).

[Craig_From_Cincy]

Interesting to note that despite there being umpteen brands of bourbon and rye on liquor store shelves, there are only a few distillers making bourbon and rye these days. Many of the brands that you see are in fact the same whiskies, bottled at different proofs and ages. Sometimes they are identical whiskies rightdown to age and proof, just sold under different labels. As an example, Old Forrester and Woodford Reserve are in fact the same whiskey. Bulleit Rye, Redemption Rye, Dickel Rye, High West Rye and Willett Rye are all the exact same rye whiskey, distilled by MGP at their Lawrenceburg, Indiana distillery, better known as LDI (Tthe Dickel Rye does undergo the Lincoln County Process after it leaves LDI, but it's made from the same whiskey as the others). This is a rather deceptive practice in the industry that most consumers aren't aware of. Most of the whiskey brands are owned by the large liquor corporations (Diageo, Brown-Forman, Bacardi, Beam etc), others are owned by "non distilling producers" (NDP), which are essentially marketing companies that buy whiskies from distillers and sell them under their own brand name. Some of these NDP's age, blend and bottle the whiskies they purchase, while others buy already aged whiskey directly from the distillery and just have their label put on the bottles. Here is a listing of all of the macro distillers, the particular mashes they produce, and which brands are made from each of these whiskies:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/s ... post285944

[bernards66]

Squire, Very well then!....sigh. Yes that was undoubtedly the stuff. Since it said that it was 'pot stilled' on the label, as well as 'sour mash' well, that was all I knew. I never looked into it further. As I mentioned, as of the late 1960s in northern NJ this stuff was very hard to find. I got a bottle that was part of the small 'reception'/party after my first wedding. And I only found it a couple of more times. Interesting that it was actually sort of inbetween a true bourbon and a straight rye. That may explain why it seemed somewhat unique and I remember thinking 'wow!...I like this even more than Jack Daniels, Beam Green Label, etc'. Well, that was a long time ago and I'm just as glad that I'm not into all of this today because I couldn't afford the prices they're charging for most this stuff now anyway.
Regards,
Gordon

[Squire]

Good reference Craig, Josh's Whiskey Tree as it's called over on straightbourbon.com which is the place to visit if you want to learn about Bourbon and other American whiskys.

A couple of points, Johnny Drum is produced by a small family concern but they don't make it, rather they buy it in bulk then slap their label on it.

Old Forester and Woodford are both made by Brown-Forman using the same recipe. Standard Woodford is a blend of the two although Woodford does bottle some labels that use 100% of their own distillate.

[gsgo]

To fight some of the conglomerate control small distillers are popping up like wineries did a few years ago. We have one not to far that is actually making some inroads on the shelf and in restaurants. Their offering is decent enough although I found a couple of their products were a little "hot" for my taste.

In all honesty it seems like we are indulging less and less lately while friends of ours have a selection of fine whiskeys to be envied.

The big brands are able to provide the marketing support it takes to drive sales, while the small distillers have to scratch and claw out a bit of market share.

[Squire]

They certainly are cropping up, more than 300 new micro distillerys in the last decade.

[lanolite]

A couple of points, Johnny Drum is produced by a small family concern but they don't make it, rather they buy it in bulk then slap their label on it.

I'm sure you know more about it than me, Squire, but I had understood Willets had started distilling again. I haven't been out there for a few years.

http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2012/ ... key-again/

[Squire]

The Kuslveen family, who are related to the Willets through marriage, now own and operate the facility and began limited distillation a little over a year ago. I expect we will see them bottle some of their own make in the years to come but at the present time all of their labels are repackaged bulk whisky.

They even came out with a Willett Pot Still brand in a ridiculous pot shaped bottle and when publically called on the accuracy of the claim changed their tune to say, oh, no, we didn't actually mean the whisky was pot stilled, we called it that because of the pot shaped bottle. They have always been very disingenuous about the real source of the whisky in their bottles but are conveniently located about 1/4 of a mile away from Heaven Hill, who, in addition to their own brands has traditionally been a supplier of bulk whisky for other brands.

[EL Alamein]

Fascinating thread as I love Bourbon. My current love is Elijah Craig 12 yo and 18 yo (when I can get it). Looking at that Whiskey Tree link I suppose it's nothing more than Evan Williams etc? Is there a real difference like age etc? There seems to be in taste etc, at least to me. Also, Evan Williams comes in plastic in some iterations (which I abhor and think changes the taste) and is a turn-off.

On a side note, way back when I was in college, I liked indulging in an occasional bottle of Evan Williams but preferred Old Grand Dad 101 as my staple (Evan Williams when finances dictated it). Here, where I live, Elijah Craig is the same price as Jack Daniels which I also like but prefer the Elijah Craig due to it's more mellow taste. Currently I drink about a bottle a week (The Drinking Man's Diet - http://www.amazon.com/dp/091868465X).

Chris

[Squire]

It's a combination of warehousing and the skill of Master Blenders. Kentucky warehouses typically contain about 20,000 barrels of whisky and those stored on the top floors age much faster than the ones on the bottom floors producing differences in texture and flavor. These are combined by the Master Blenders to create the specific flavor profiles of Evan Williams and Elijah Craig. Their EW Single Barrel expression is made from barrels individually selected by the Master Distiller himself who happens to be a member of the Beam family.

[Craig_From_Cincy]

Chris,

What Squire said.

Squire and Lanolite,

I used to work for one of the Willetts, John David (JD) who co-owned a beer distributorship in Northern Kentucky. He told me that his family had fought in the Revolutionary War and was distilling since that period. They moved to Kentucky after the Whiskey Rebellion and had been distilling in the state for almost two centuries. Even Kulsveen (who is from Norway incidentally)) is JD's brother-in-law, and started distilling at the old distillery in 2012. It's going to be sometime before any of the small quantities of whiskies that he is making are ready to be bottled. Kulsveen also owns Kentucky Bourbon Distillers (KBD), a NDP that has been in business for 30+ years. KBD buys bourbon and rye from distillers, aging some in its own warehouses. It then sells some of that whiskey to its customers, also bottling it for them, and the rest it sells as its own brands, including Old Bardstown, the original Willett Distillery's flagship bourbon, and Johnny Drum.

While I'm enthused about the craft distilling movement, but most of what's being produced are vodka, gin, and other unaged grain neutral spirit based distillates. The truth is that making bourbon and rye is expensive; bourbon must be aged for a minimum of 4 years and must also be stored in charred new oak barrels. Most craft distillers lack both the capitol and space to invest in such large amounts of inventory.

[Ken]

Craig,

There are no specific age requirements for a whiskey to be labeled "bourbon," as long as other requirements are met. To be labeled "straight bourbon," whiskey must be aged at least two years (along with other requirements) and, if aged less than four years, must carry a specific age statement. A straight bourbon without an age statement must be at least four years old. The same age requirements apply to rye.

That said, I agree with you that micro-distilleries pose a serious problem as many of them try to "age" whiskey in un-coventional ways.

Ken

[Squire]

That's correct Craig, members of the Willett family worked for other distillerys for generations and started up their own operation in 1935 following Prohibition. They hired Charlie Thomason as their Master Distiller who stayed with them until his retirement in 1974 at which time they stopped making whisky and turned the plant over to producing industrial alcohol. It was about that time Evan Kuslveen began marketing the Willett brands in Europe and became successful enough to create the company his children own and operate today.

My comments regarding their current brands are limited to the Kuslveens alone and should not be taken as a reflection on the Willetts or Mr. Thomason who was and still is a highly respected figure.

[Craig_From_Cincy]

Craig,

There are no specific age requirements for a whiskey to be labeled "bourbon," as long as other requirements are met. To be labeled "straight bourbon," whiskey must be aged at least two years (along with other requirements) and, if aged less than four years, must carry a specific age statement. A straight bourbon without an age statement must be at least four years old. The same age requirements apply to rye.

That said, I agree with you that micro-distilleries pose a serious problem as many of them try to "age" whiskey in un-coventional ways.

Ken

Thanks Ken, I just had a review of the legals and you are right. But let's face it, very young whiskey does not make for great drinking. Some of these young 'master distillers' working at craft distillers are trying all kinds of shortcuts to proper aging. I know of none of them who have had good results. Some distillers are buying whiskies on the open market and either selling them under their own name, or are combining these purchased whiskies with their own very young distillates in an attempt to offer their own proprietary whiskey.

[gsgo]

The local craft distiller I referred to, to have product on the shelf when he opened contracted out time at another distiller to make his barrel aged product in advance of his opening. Using his recipes and barels which are a huge investment he was able to get product started long before his opening. No short cuts and let nature do its stuff. For the ultimate group buy he will put up a small private barel for those interested, could be a shaving forum first to actually barel it's own hooch!

[brothers]

I'm definitely IN just so there's no doubt. Depending on the consensus, and the cost, of course.

[Squire]

gsgo that's like saying I know a craftsman who makes shaving cream who will be glad to whip up a custom batch just for us. He has no tract record to speak of but he says it's as good as Trumpers and will only cost 2-3 times as much.

If you want to buy a barrel of fully aged expertly made whisky the real pros at Heaven Hill, Brown-Forman, Buffalo Trace or Four Roses will be glad to accommodate you. They will even invite you down to the distillery so you can make a personal selection.

[gsgo]

Squire, here is a link to the distiller I refer, while new on the scene they are definitely in the business...

http://journeymandistillery.com

We visit once in a while for a drink or nosh before or after a show, there is both live theater and a great independent movie house in Three Oaks, MI that we visit often during the summer season. This is not to far from our summer home in Michigan and Three Oaks is about 70 miles from downtown Chicago.