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weeper theory

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weeper theory

Postby gil3591 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:41 am

ok, we all know that weepers are caused from bad technique, right? well i'm starting to rethink that idea. sure , maybe when we first start out shaving but now i am thinking it's actually the razor. the past two years now i have been using a de. i have always gotten weepers and blamed it on me. the more aggressive the razor the more weepers i expected to get and the weepers were always proportional to how close the shave was. in time the frequency of weepers has diminished but i would still get them, especially when using a new , sharp blade.

however i am changing my thinking. what has made me go down this train of thought is my recent aquisition of a merkur progress xl and also a regular progress. after trial and error with many makes and models i have narrowed my razor inventory down to just these two razors and am quite happy. the xl was very aggressive when i rec'd it. i had other progress before and this one required a setting of 1 where as the old progress's were at 3.5. i also noticed there was a quality difference. much better made. better chrome, even blade gap. so i bought a regular length progress also. this one was definately a new generation. it had different marks between the numbers and even had slicone lube on the threads. the xl went out to mer for a conversion and to be tamed a little. the regular progress remains unaltered. but what i am getting at is this: neither of these two razors has yet to give me weepers no matter how aggressive i set them. all me previous razors have to some degree. i really don't think my technique has improved. all i need to do is shave with my slim adjustable and i'm back to reality :oops: so i am thinking: WEEPERS ARE NOT ONLY A TECHNIQUE ISSUE BUT MAYBE CAUSED BY THE RAZOR. i'm thinking it's uneven blade gap, or maybe a head that causes the blade to have a ripple or wave in it that we can't see with the naked eye. also, a bad blade edge. these blades are cheap, you know. and these blades are cutting on a molecular level with a razor that is mass produced at a low cost.

so there you have it. my theory that weepers are razor or blade induced and not just technique
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Postby druphus » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:28 am

I think its technique plain and simple.

You may need to change how you shave with different razors (i.e. fit your technique to the given razor), but its technique none the less. I get weepers when I'm not careful. The more aggressive the razor, the more carefull I have to be.
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Postby marsos52 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:48 pm

its 3 things

1. your technique

2. the razor, and if it is right for you..

3. blade

get the right razor that works for your face and beard and you develop
good technique with it. and with a blade that works well for you with the razor and your technique and your set..

use the same technique and the same razor and switch blade brands ,, and now you might have to change your technique for how the new blade is honed.. almost each time i change to a different blade i need to slightly re-adjust my razor angle or the setting to my razor

so it is a sum of all parts..

thats why i seldom try new blades and razors.. i found what works and i stay with it.. i do experiement from time to time.. and the process is almost like starting over..

even i used only two razors and have for years.. i rotation them after two weeks or longer.. when i change razors it takes a couple days for my shave to be outstanding..

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Postby funkthulhu » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:53 pm

I gotta agree with Gil a little bit, but for a different reason.

I find most of my weepers come about on the same part of my face (neck) just about every time, regardless of how careful I am.

I think it has to do with the small magnitude topography of my skin. Some places the roughness of the skin, direction of the hair, various bumps and divots all lead to the razor catching on flesh.

Incidentally, these are the same places I had trouble with when I used a cartridge razor. However, the angle of a DE and the gap available makes the problem more noticeable.

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Postby merkri » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:29 pm

I tend to get weepers with a new blade; as I use the blade, the probability of getting a weeper decreases.

Is this due to technique or the blade? It seems like you could look at it either way.

I get many more weepers with a cartridge than a DE razor, though.
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Postby gil3591 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:47 pm

merkri wrote:I tend to get weepers with a new blade; as I use the blade, the probability of getting a weeper decreases.

Is this due to technique or the blade? It seems like you could look at it either way.

I get many more weepers with a cartridge than a DE razor, though.


this is what i am suggesting. maybe it's not cause the blade is sharp and thereby exposing your poor technique but rather the sharp blade is exposing irregularities in the razor. as the blade dulls the problem with the razor is masked. i thought about this strictly because i don't get weepers with my new razors but i do with the others. my technique remains the same
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Postby Whistler » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:23 pm

I chalk up weepers to the blade, I find there are 4 blades that I use that will never give me a weeper, swedes, Gillette spoilers, Schick w/teflon coating and IP's, I use the same razor every morning a slim adjustable. I can shave in a hurry with the 4 blades above and be fine, I can shave slow with the same blades and be fine, my lather can be a bit thin a bit thick and still no weepers, the 4 blades run the gammit of sharpness from pretty sharp to adequetly sharp, but always the same result, smooth close weeper free shave.

If I try a gillette yellow or green or feather or even Super Iridiums I always get weepers in the same spots all the time, now there have been many more blades I have tried but always the same result, weepers. Feathers, all I have to do is look at one of those blades and red spots show up on my face. I always give a new blade a full pack worth of shaves to give the blades a fair chance but have only found the 4 above to give consistant smooth weeper free shaves for my face.

I feel, everyones face is different, and every blade and it's sharpness reacts in a different way on everyones face, in most threads everone has a go to blade and razor for one reason or another.
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Postby druphus » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:13 pm

If you have a defective razor or blade, than I would agree, technique is not the problem.

Furthermore, if you have bumps, they are going to get cut-off, and one had better tread lightly.

However, when Marc talks about blade angle, etc. that is all part of "technique". I worked on my technique with open-comb razors so that I could judge my angle. If it is not extreme enough, you leave tracks with the open-comb. A safety-bar razor can squeegee the lather off, as opposed to the blade doing this!

Finally, another component of proper “technique” is pressure. This needs to be varied depending on the razor and the blade. When I first joined this Forum, I would read, “...no pressure...” over-and-over; until a 2008 post where Squire referred to the “...pressure necessary...”. The fact is that good technique dictates that the pressure you use is related to the razor (head weight, handle length, balance, etc.), as well as, the blade used (sharpness, hone, etc.), and also the thinkness and slickness of your lather. You don’t use the same pressure (technique) with every razor/blade combination or lather.

My father had a stroke in August of 2010 and I will usually give him a shave once a week on Saturday. Since he also suffered from blood clots in his legs and feet, he is on high doses of blood thinner. What he hates most about shaves is the “pulling”; so I have been using a long handled razor with either an open-comb Merkur or Muhle head, and either a Feather or Super Iridium blade. In over 40 of these shaves, I have yet to draw blood (which is more than I can say about shaving myself.) There is nothing like shaving someone else to perfect your technique. I’m tempted to take the straight razor over to Dad’s one of these weekends and see what he says!
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Postby Squire » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:42 am

Okay Gil, here's a guess. As I understand weepers, from the descriptions and photos posted here by members, they result from a thinning of the skin surface by the blade so it just makes sense that some razors may not be comparable with your face. Or should be used more slowly (deliberately?) than other razors.
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Postby scruffy » Wed May 25, 2011 9:44 am

I find a high correlation between my acne breakouts and the number of weepers. It is irrespective of my razor or my blade. I have noticed that a Feather blade will slice through a bump rather than passing over it unllike my Iridium.
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Postby JarmoP » Fri May 27, 2011 10:33 am

I can get weeperness shaves with any of my razors, usually. So i must disagree with your theory. It is mostly a bad shave stroke that can cause it.

For instance I cannot get irritationless shaves with Feather blades, my skin is usually too thin for such an aggressive blade. But I cannot say about this summer, since no central heating and sweating. So they may work too.

But razor aggressiveness IMO only, has nothing to do with that, in my normal razors all I have. I would go as long as to tell, for all readers reading this thread. You don't need new razors, if you have one relatively good one.
It is all in the technique.

Progress is also one of my liked shavers like you like it Gil. And of course there is a borderline that one should not dial up too much. I wanted only to say that the razors, fixed head razors, are usually designed so that with good technique, never ever any weepers. Sure some red spots with an aggressive blade can happen though.
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Postby Squire » Fri May 27, 2011 3:40 pm

Jarmo expressed it better than I did, it really does come down to technique.

Having said that the Progress simply does not work for me and I used one daily for about six months.
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Postby fallingwickets » Sat May 28, 2011 2:22 am

I got weepers when i used the feather razor.....i wasnt used to its mildness and dug right in :shock:

when i used a cream the same thing happened. all this to say that maybe weepers is a bit of both technique and also other factors: lather blade and razor

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Postby SmallTank » Sat May 28, 2011 9:19 am

Personally I have realized this...if razor is in mint condition..blade is brand new..no tugging or pulling from blade..bunch of weepers showing up...reason..DE blades flex..yep..the ONLY DE blades I have found that dont "flex" are Gillette Bleue Extra..good n stiff like an SE razor..though make sure your angle is perfect as well to make sure your weepers aernt from angle either... :D

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Postby JarmoP » Sun May 29, 2011 8:00 am

Personally I have realized this...if razor is in mint condition..blade is brand new..no tugging or pulling from blade..bunch of weepers showing up...reason..DE blades flex..


I was thinking same when I saw first how nowadays DE blades are constructed, to be able to fit in any shaver. I changed my mind though. Shaving with a DE blades requires minimum pressure. So I dont buy with "flex theory". The DE blades still provide enough stiffness needed.

Also the if one was able to measure the fexibility of different razor blades, they would be quite the same. Since they are of same thickness and geometry I think and steel is just steel, same strength of material property called Youngs modulus.
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Postby Racso_MS » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:38 pm

I've just started using my Progress in my rotation. I always forget how good it shaves. It's always one of my favorites and I have very few if no issues with it. One day I'll purchase or trade for a long handle but the two I have (Progress and Mergress) always give me excellent shaves.

Who knows; technique, razor/blade combo, razor, blade. Macht Nichts. If, when using a Progress/Mergress you receive no nicks or weepers, drive on my friend and : ENJOY YOUR SHAVE. :D
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Postby Lord Ponsenberry Smyth » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:05 am

Jeepers, creepers, how'd you get those weepers !

I think the majority of experienced DE shavers seldom if ever get weepers.

I think for the majority of DE shavers there are no rules re technique other than to do what comes naturally.

I beleive using a DE is as natural as combing or brushing your hair. - ( apologies to those that are bald.)
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Postby bernards66 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:48 pm

Dave, I tend to agree. Personally I never get weepers and the few razor and/or blades that I think might have eventually produced them I stopped messing with long before it got to that point ( think Feather AC for example ). Unless one has some sort of specific skin problem I think that most nicks, cuts, weepers, and such are technique issues or major lapses in attention.
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Postby Craig_From_Cincy » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 pm

I got weepers today. I tried to get one too many shaves out of a blade, and tried to get BBS on my neck. Very mad form on my part.
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Postby bernards66 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:09 pm

Craig, Well...there you go. Essentially a 'technique error' or poor judgement.
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