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Simpson Brush Shedding - Expectations

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Simpson Brush Shedding - Expectations

Postby RazorRamone » Sun May 22, 2011 10:22 am

I purchased a Simpsons Duke 3 several weeks ago. Although I enjoy this brush... I am tiring of seeing 3-4 brush hairs on my face/in the sink every time I use the brush.

This is my first Simpsons brush. I am wondering after several weeks of shedding, if this is up to standards. I can run my fingers through the brush and - without effort - pull out several hairs.

What should my expectations be in terms of a new Simpsons brush and shedding?
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Postby Thalay Sagar » Sun May 22, 2011 10:26 am

If you have been using the brush frequently, then I think that is a bit excessive. I would give it a little longer to see if it settles down and if not contact the vendor or Vulfix/Simpson.
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Postby Austin » Sun May 22, 2011 10:48 am

Brushes commonly shed for a couple of weeks. Don't worry about it unless it becomes common.
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Re: Simpson Brush Shedding - Expectations

Postby Vulfix Old Original » Sun May 22, 2011 10:52 am

Hi RR,

Give the brush at least 6 months to calm down & bed in. 3 or 4 hairs lost per shave is perfectly normal. The Duke's are 'packed' incredibly tight.

If the brush worsens in the next few weeks, please send it back to our factory marked for my attention. I will personally ensure it's replaced free of charge immediately.

Any other concerns, email me direct on mark@progress-vulfix.com

Cheers,

Mark Watterson
Managing Director
Simpson Shaving Brushes

RazorRamone wrote:I purchased a Simpsons Duke 3 several weeks ago. Although I enjoy this brush... I am tiring of seeing 3-4 brush hairs on my face/in the sink every time I use the brush.

This is my first Simpsons brush. I am wondering after several weeks of shedding, if this is up to standards. I can run my fingers through the brush and - without effort - pull out several hairs.

What should my expectations be in terms of a new Simpsons brush and shedding?
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Postby Whistler » Sun May 22, 2011 11:37 am

Cant ask for more than that!

The two shedders I have had were replaced without question 4-6 months into the shedding.
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Re: Simpson Brush Shedding - Expectations

Postby RazorRamone » Sun May 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Wow. I don't recall if a manufacturer/vendor of *any* product I have ever purchased has initiated this sort of follow up.

Thanks for the response. I will hold off and follow up if required.

Cheers,

RR
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Postby psram » Sun May 22, 2011 10:52 pm

I remember reading that a badger brush has 15K hairs or more (if densely packed). 100-200 hairs shed really is insignificant, unless of course it is all in one tiny area of the brush, like say right in the middle :D
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Postby Janus » Mon May 23, 2011 12:28 am

It took close to four months for my Grosvenor LE to stop shedding. Annoying while it lasted I must admit, but now I'm glad I held onto it.
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Postby insomniac » Mon May 23, 2011 7:05 am

psram wrote:I remember reading that a badger brush has 15K hairs or more (if densely packed). 100-200 hairs shed really is insignificant, unless of course it is all in one tiny area of the brush, like say right in the middle :D


I've tried brush restoration and that means pulling out the hairs - there are indeed a LOT of hairs, 3-4 is nothing especially on a dense brush like the Duke.

As Mark said, I wouldn't worry about it right now, and Simpsons has a great reputation for replacing shedders.
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Postby drumana » Mon May 23, 2011 7:39 am

Hmmmm... I don't know. I've owned about a dozen Simpson brushes and none shed 3 - 4 hairs per shave for the first several weeks. To me, that's excessive. The 'normal' for me has been 3 - 4 hairs for the first two or three latherings and then the occasional hair or two as time goes on.
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Postby churchilllafemme » Mon May 23, 2011 9:58 am

Hmmmm... I don't know. I've owned about a dozen Simpson brushes and none shed 3 - 4 hairs per shave for the first several weeks. To me, that's excessive. The 'normal' for me has been 3 - 4 hairs for the first two or three latherings and then the occasional hair or two as time goes on.


+1. I've only bought 2 Simpsons new, but neither one shed more than a couple hairs total.
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Postby Vulfix Old Original » Mon May 23, 2011 12:41 pm

Unfortunately with hand made brushes normality goes out of the window.

I'll give you the exact reason why (in Simpson's case and why we are perceived by some to churn out more shedders than most aside making more than anyone else *probably*):

When one of our bundlers grabs for a hand full of badger, they do so literally. A handful is taken from a 1kg 'roll'. That is then weighed according to the brush & knot diameter. Now, this bundle lying on the scales could contain 15,000 hairs, it could well be more. In an ideal world each and every hair would be the same colour, the same length and share the same characteristics ... Alas, we are dealing with animal hair, a natural product. Much in the same way as ours, no two single hairs are the same.

Even when the knots have been weighed, bundled, tied, glued and set, it is impossible (and I hate that word) to pick up every loose & short hair in the glue & set process. Once the glue has gone off (we leave every knot for 24 hours at least) it is then thoroughly combed and twiddled (pulled gently through a machine) in an effort to extract loose hairs further.

This could in fact actually weaken the resin glue bond with the hair and cause additional problems down the line but it is a necessary step in hand made knot forming.

Now, here's the real story. Knots react so, so differently under water. You will all see that as they bloom ... "Obviously Mark, you daft so & so" I hear you cry. The way in which our brushes are packed (tighter than most) means once again that they are going to be prone to losing a few once the brush is wet and under normal shaving conditions. I'd love us to be able to wet them all in warm soapy water prior to leaving the unit, but that wouldn't be a good look!!!

Shedding for me is very subjective, but after holding a brush for 10 seconds I can determine what is & what isn't a bad brush.

There you go, a little manufacturing insight. Hopefully it makes a little sense?

Cheers,

Mark


drumana wrote:Hmmmm... I don't know. I've owned about a dozen Simpson brushes and none shed 3 - 4 hairs per shave for the first several weeks. To me, that's excessive. The 'normal' for me has been 3 - 4 hairs for the first two or three latherings and then the occasional hair or two as time goes on.
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Postby Squire » Mon May 23, 2011 1:54 pm

Yes it does Mark, thanks for the insight, we hobby shavers sometimes get so caught up in detail we loose sight of the natural properties of our gear.
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Postby numcks » Mon May 23, 2011 3:15 pm

All I know is that Mark will do right by Simpsons' customers. I had a Chubby 1 in 2-band Super with a wonky, pointy knot. Mark replaced the brush free of charge and personally inspected and selected the replacement. I buy Simpsons without worry with regard to getting stuck with a lemon of a brush.
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Postby John Parker » Mon May 23, 2011 3:43 pm

Great info! Thanks, Mark!
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Re: Simpson Brush Shedding - Expectations

Postby jss » Mon May 23, 2011 5:22 pm

Vulfix Old Original wrote:Hi RR,

Give the brush at least 6 months to calm down & bed in. 3 or 4 hairs lost per shave is perfectly normal. The Duke's are 'packed' incredibly tight.

If the brush worsens in the next few weeks, please send it back to our factory marked for my attention. I will personally ensure it's replaced free of charge immediately.

Any other concerns, email me direct on mark@progress-vulfix.com

Cheers,

Mark Watterson
Managing Director
Simpson Shaving Brushes

RazorRamone wrote:I purchased a Simpsons Duke 3 several weeks ago. Although I enjoy this brush... I am tiring of seeing 3-4 brush hairs on my face/in the sink every time I use the brush.

This is my first Simpsons brush. I am wondering after several weeks of shedding, if this is up to standards. I can run my fingers through the brush and - without effort - pull out several hairs.

What should my expectations be in terms of a new Simpsons brush and shedding?


Bravo!! nuf said....

Best regards,

Julian
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Postby Drubbing » Tue May 24, 2011 9:19 pm

Hi All

What Mark says is spot on. These are handmade items, not cookie cutter conveyor-belt automated pieces. Even so, even brushes that involve more automated processes than Simpsons employ, can still shed. My Rooney was a terrible shedder and was replaced.

It's the nature of the material, and that in comparison to lower end brushes or boars, they are very tightly packed. Many rightly argue that $100+ handmade item shouldn't be 'faulty', but as Mark says, they can only do so much before letting them go, and the loose hairs can pop out with soap, use and agitation.

I have 2 Simmo's and both shed 1 or 2 hairs for a few weeks. 3-4 hairs per shave can be normal. If it's still occurring after a few weeks, I for one, would be pushing for a replacement, others may be more patient. It's always possible they'll stop, but I'm not going to wait months and see.

If a brush loses far more than 3-4 per shave, I'd be thinking a duff knot is to blame and wouldn't wait to contact the vendor.
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Postby bernards66 » Tue May 24, 2011 9:35 pm

Mark, Thank you for a most informative and excellent post. My experiance with Simpsons has been the same as Andrew's....and I think that is more the norm ( hell, Peter agrees and he's got how many of them!? ). However, your description of the process makes it easy to understand how a minority of specimens might shed more, and longer, without being true 'shedders' that need to be replaced.
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Postby bernards66 » Tue May 24, 2011 9:37 pm

Drubbing, Also a fine post, and welcome to SMF!
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Postby jss » Tue May 24, 2011 10:31 pm

Drubbing welcome to SMF..Great first post....

Best regards,

Julian
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