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We are the other 1%

Thoughts and input on anything related to wet shaving or men's grooming.

Postby ShadowsDad » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:30 pm

Yeah, definitely odd. Gary, that cracked me up!

First, I find it amusing that after creating really crappy products that folks don't want to use, that is, products that turn shaving into a chore, here they are now trying to persuade folks to keep their facial hair. Did anyone else catch that? "Keep your facial hair, but try this razor, to keep your hair.". Unh huh. All in the attempt to get males to show their individuality, by "all of you" keeping your facial hair to be different. Huh? :?

Andre the Seal said it in the commercial (BTW thanks for where to find it KAV), "One less customer.". That'd be me. Except for blades, Gillette Yellows to be exact, they can keep everything else.

"It took me a long time to grow facial hair, ...", is what Andre also said. So in essence he's proving that he reached puberty. Good for you Andre. I'm happy for you, You da man!

I learned long ago that companies need to advertise what people don't need. Folks know they need to eat, so food doesn't really need to be advertised (junk does need advertising), for example. But to get folks to want what they don't need companies need to advertise. Once I learned that, advertsing became it's own worst advertising. I can't remember the last time anything was advertised and I bought it. That ad certainly wouldn't get me to buy that lastest Gillette POJ. Only the insecure would be swayed by it IMO.

Now an ad for a Slim or Fatboy, that might get me to want a Fatboy. But again, I don't really need it. Quite happy with what I have.

I guess I'm just not who that advertisment was aimed at. What a surprise. :roll:

OK curmudgeon mode off.
Brian

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Or find it online at Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, and Barclay Crocker.
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Postby brothers » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:07 pm

Conversely I've never seen a TV ad for a Cobra Classic, but I want one. SMF probably has imbedded subliminal ads flying all around.
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Postby kronos9 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:15 pm

brothers wrote:Conversely I've never seen a TV ad for a Cobra Classic, but I want one. SMF probably has imbedded subliminal ads flying all around.


That is a You really most need a outrageous Cobra Classic accusation.
Ed
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Postby Nitrox » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:34 pm

brothers wrote:Conversely I've never seen a TV ad for a Cobra Classic, but I want one. SMF probably has imbedded subliminal ads flying all around.


Subliminal ads or more like good enablers... :lol: :lol:
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shave every day and you'll always look keen."
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Postby Quarterstick » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:57 am

kronos9 wrote:
brothers wrote:Conversely I've never seen a TV ad for a Cobra Classic, but I want one. SMF probably has imbedded subliminal ads flying all around.


That is a You really most need a outrageous Cobra Classic accusation.


:lol:

I used to wear ball caps backwards. In my younger days I thought it looked good, it functionally kept the hair out of my eyes (back when I had some), and the people that wore ball caps forward were not the types I cared to associate with. Funny how styles change and each generation has in crowds and out crowds.

Popular culture and mass appeal are not all bad. However, the result is often mediocrity when you shoot for the middle (except in target practice).
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Postby harper » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:31 pm

Kav wrote:

"We have 7242 registered members here. Let's assume ONLY 20% are still active. That's still 1400 odd people. Now imagine if Gillette got 1000 emails showing distaste for the ad. To a marketing researcher that = 10,000 potential customers since it's a rule of thumb each consumer shares good and bad experiences with that many people.
How many 20 something dudes and their dudets will turn off MTV or Poorman's Bikini Beach to email how much they LOVE and were moved by this commercial?"

Kav, what makes you think the 1400 still active people here would send an e-mail to Gillette? And do you think Gillette would really care? Clearly the people who sent the e-mails would fall into a pattern and the advertising mavens would quickly sense that the e-mails were not spontaneously sent but generated by an organization of some type. When your market is 60 or 70 million shavers an extrapolated 10,000 is fairly insignificant because what counts is not whether the advertising is liked (there is good data to show that ads that irritate people can be as successful as those that people like) but whether the product is selling and if the sales can be traced to the advertising (not difficult to determine). If it is selling then 10,000 negative e-mails are of no marketing consequence. If the product is not selling, that is a different matter but long before the e-mails arrived the advertiser would know the advertising was not working.

Additionally, advertising is pretested with various groups to see if it is effective or not. If it is not, then it does not get on the air or in print. David Ogily is famous for saying "the consumer is not a moron, she is your wife." It is just as true in reverse.

I wish you well in trying to change things but I would bet on P&G.
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Postby wvbias » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:02 am

I sometime have to wonder how there are
enough of us to keep the few vendors out
there in business. I'm also including the
other shaving forum members as well
in the mix. I don't think that any of these
vendors are getting rich off our addiction
but I hope that I'm wrong.

Perhaps there are a lot of guys out there
with the same addiction who are not a
forum member??



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Postby harper » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:05 am

wvbias, good point.

I would be interested in how many tubes and bowls of shaving creams and soaps the various high-end Brit companies make and sell each year. I have tried to find out but could find nothing on the Internet that gave any reliable information since many of the companies are privately owned or are part of another corporation and do not break down their sales. However, the British companies must be profitable because many of them have been around for a very long time. I have also tried to get a fix on how many DE blades are made around the world and it is impossible. I am sure such information is available and Gillette has a good idea because they make a lot of DE blades around the world; the same for the others but the info is hard to come by. I would also like to know the penetration in the various world markets of cartridge razors, disposables used by men and disposables used by women. Gillette is certainly not going to release its figures to its competitors nor are its competitors. The longevity of the type of shaving preferred by what I believe is the majority of shavers on this formum is likely a problem for you but not for me: I am going to be 82 in 4 months and have about a four year supply of Feather and Super Iridium blades; that is about as far in the future as I am willing to go although I would love to run out of those blades for the obvious reason.
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Postby celestino » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:17 pm

Gary,
You should definitely try the Cobra and good thing i have not had a TV in over twenty years. i get no subliminal messages except for your suggestions and recommendations. :D
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Postby wvbias » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:49 pm

A question I would like to throw out is how
many of you would be doing this if it wasn't
for the Internet?? I can't help but to think
that it has had a positive effect.


If not for the Internet I would have never heard
of Vulfix, Simpsons, Murkur, Trumper's, Taylor's
and a whole host of other things. I would not own
one straight razor much less the herd I currently
possess.

Now I can say that I would at least be using a
Surrey Brush and soap. But I would always be
wondering how much longer Rite Aid and Wal mart
would continue to carry these items.


Just some thoughts. I hope my ramblings make
some sense. I wish I were a little more articulate
in putting my thoughts into words.


Terry
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Postby brothers » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:13 pm

Terry, very well said!
Gary
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Postby ShadowsDad » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:29 pm

It made sense to me Terry.

Yes, the internet is definitely responsible for the resurgence. At least as far as I'm concerned. I bet for most others too. Even if they were introduced to it by another person, I bet if it's followed back it goes to the 'net.
Brian

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Or find it online at Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving, and Barclay Crocker.
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Postby Quarterstick » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:37 pm

Based on what I have heard and read the production of smaller scale, higher quality products has been on the rise for some time and shown great success even during the economic down turn. One factor that has been attributed to the success of "craft" products is the internet's ability to provided a broader market . I am not concerned that quality shaving goods will go the way of the dodo before I do and I have at least a few decades left (optimistically).
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Postby Gareth » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:17 am

wvbias wrote:I sometime have to wonder how there are
enough of us to keep the few vendors out
there in business. I'm also including the
other shaving forum members as well
in the mix. I don't think that any of these
vendors are getting rich off our addiction
but I hope that I'm wrong.

Perhaps there are a lot of guys out there
with the same addiction who are not a
forum member??



Terry


You are right in saying the internet has more than likely helped these vendors and retailers greatly. However, it was possible to get information on these brands before the internet 'got big'; just speak to Gordon or Bill (Trumperman). It was just done through catalogues, word of mouth and a bit of digging.

If you take the four main St James' purveyors, I would say that most of their business is not from online shaving forums. They all have an excellent and long standing reputation for product and services amongst the business, political and wealthy elite. Their shops are usually pretty busy and I can't imagine they are all members of SMF or other shaving fora.

As for how much profit they make, I'm not sure. I'm certain the owners and directors make a good living out of it, but to what extent I wouldn't like to say.

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Postby dosco » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:18 pm

I finally saw the Gillette ad on the telly. Oy. Vey.
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Postby Nitrox » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:37 pm

I searched for this commercial online and found it on a site.
All I can say is Chris, you couldn't have described it better. If this is how they want us men to look and act (which is their goal anyway), then human males will become extinct.

Here's a write up about it from the site:

"Gillette has launched a fashionable new ad campaign starring a trio of style icons that targets men who style their facial hair.

The "Masters of Style" ad campaign launched this week and it's a new direction for the brand... after all, the traditional Gillette man has always been clean-shaven. The new ads feature Adrien Brody (the award-winning actor who recently strutted the Prada runway in Milan), Gael García Bernal (the pretty boy best known for his roles in Motorcycle Diaries, Babel and Y Tu Mama Tambien) and André 3000 (the Grammy-winning artist who has been conquering the fashion world with his Benjamin Bixby line) and there's not a clean-shaven face in sight.

The glossy ads and slick commercials are in support of Gillette's new Fusion ProGlide Styler, a 3-in-1 battery-operated shaving tool that allows men to trim, edge and shave their facial hair.

The new Gillette look reflects the findings of a new survey by the company, which found that about 40% of men in North America are styling their stubble."

I never in my life have 'styled' my facial hair, and I've been shaving for a very long time. :lol: :lol:
Bruno

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shave every day and you'll always look keen."
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Postby wvbias » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:59 pm

Everything old becomes new again.
Check this out - courtesy of wikipedia...


[33] In the spring of 1986, an electric razor became available called the Stubble Device, that allowed users to have a beard like Don Johnson's character. Initially, it was named the Miami Device by Wahl, but in the end the company wanted to avoid a trademark infringement lawsuit.


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Postby harper » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:39 pm

Nitrox, neither have I am and I am on the way to 82 this summer ... but we are not the target market for Gillette ... the younger men are. And I am willing to bet that this is niche marketing at best and will not continue as the main thrust of Gillette's longer-term advertising. I shave every day but I see a lot of younger men ... including my well-educated 41 year old son ... who find it perfectly acceptable to have a stubble. I grew a beard once for five days and it drove me nuts. Even when I was in the hospital for various surgeries after I felt better I used an electric to shave ... es-pecially near the corners of my mouth where the whiskers stick out and I can feel them.
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Postby Esoteric83 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:01 pm

I just turned 29 and the way my demographic is treated by the likes of Gillette, and especially the uber-macho try hards like Axe and new Old Spice makes me want to puke. I would have loved to see the focus group that led to the consensus that we are quasi-retarded apes.
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Postby harper » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:58 am

Esoterica83: it would not have been one focus group, it would have been dozens and dozens and they would be geographically splinted to reflect a variety of shavers. Marketers use more sophisticated tests than focus groups to develop their ad campaigns and focus groups are usually just to tidy up ad campaigns. The fact that you or I do not fit the advertising target audience does not mean the advertising is missing its market ... only product sales will determine that and right now I doubt that anyone ourside Gilllette knows whether the campaign is succeeeding or failing. Also, we do not know where the campaign is appearing. I think I saw an ad for it but I am not sure. Advertising can be brought right down to very small audiences these days through electronics so that one community will see an ad whiile another 100 miles away will not.
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