What Did You Hone Today?

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drmoss_ca
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by drmoss_ca »

This is the last of four razors that had previously beaten me when it came to honing them. It's a Wacker 6/8 french point, which claims to be made from silver steel, though I don't know what that means in this case. There was a 19th century steel alloyed with silver created by Michael Faraday, but today there is no silver in Sheffield silver steel, where silver refers to the bright shine this particular steel exhibits.

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The composition on the left is the British standard, and the table on the right is the European standard, which has more chromium and the addition of vanadium. The British version of this steel is said to be be able to be hardened to a maximum of 64HRC, and I suspect the European might be able to get a bit harder still (based on the fact this blade is harder to hone than a TI Sheffield silver steel blade). That seems to fit this razor.

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which has a pretty pattern etched on the spine:

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I got it shaveable for the first time last fall during my journey through all my razors, using the Chosera 1k, coticule, Arkansas progression, and even went back on the Ark with some Edge gel - all the stuff is really good for is emulating the old barber's trick of lather on a hone and that's why I have a rusty old can of the stuff at the back of the cupboard. So today I just touched it up on the lapped black Ark using my glycerine/detergent/water mix, then gave it a good stropping on the linen, suede and Cordovan Kanayama strops.

Addendum: having now shaved with it, I'll elaborate on what I did on the Arkansas—I filled in the gaps in the progression described a few posts back. This means nearly four times as many back and forth strokes, 227 instead of 60. That was followed by 40 edge-leading strokes, 20 straight and 20 x-strokes. This sounds ludicrous, but overhoning isn't an issue using the back and forth strokes as a fin cannot form. Where I have been making repeated trips to the Ark with some of these razors, getting the 60 back and forth pattern, and getting a bit better each time, this time I knew the razor to be very hard and stubborn so I really went to town The result? A shave I literally could not feel occurring as it slipped through the whiskers with no sensation. Very, very happy. Just wish I'd discovered that ten years ago when I bought it!
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by brothers »

I have an old Rugby best silver steel razor, I'm guessing (it doesn't say) this was made in England. Now that I've had the advantage of your information, I probably should take this one back to the big-boy stones one more time with a vengeance to find out whether it may be a hidden treasure waiting to be discovered.
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Gary

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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by brothers »

Yesterday: Rugby " Superior Quality Best Silver Steel "
Gary

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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by drmoss_ca »

Gary, do I understand from your SOTD post you actually followed me into the rabbit hole of back and forth honing?
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by brothers »

Yes sir! :D Now it seems like common sense to go back and forth, just so I get about the same numbers on both sides to keep things equal. Thank you! :D
Gary

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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by drmoss_ca »

It's been so long! I've been relying on my first and oldest Livi since the move. It doesn't get exquisitely sharp, being made of Damasteel, but it goes ATG without tugging and leaves no stubble. What it does do is keep it's edge for an ungodly time, though it's probably like the frog in the boiling water: it just degrades so slowly that I don't notice it. Probably should give it a refresh just for fun.

Later: I braved the basement and found the right box of hones and dug out the Arkansas. Gave the blade my usual progression (12 back and forths each side and then progressed to 6, 3 and 1) on the translucent, and then did the same on the black, both stones under running water. Then repeated the progression on the black alone with glycerin and water, stropped and shaved. Just a little over-sharp, but as the days go by the stropping will mellow that and the shaves will reach perfection in 2-3 days.

C.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by kronos9 »

I've never used a straight and with my vastly unimpressive beard area I most likely never will. It's a wonder I've accumulated so much quality shave stuff. Was told a story about my paternal grandfather (no memory of him) who would soap up and zip, zip, zip was clean. He was from the old country and apparently skilled with the blade. I never met him, being far too busy discovering my toes. But Monday is Knife Sharpening Day for me. Does that count?
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by drmoss_ca »

Sure it does: sharpening knives is harder than honing razors.

C.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by EL Alamein »

Chris,

Glad to see you getting back in the swing of things. Hope you enjoy that Livi.

Chris
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by brothers »

Chris, it's good to know you took the plunge and rescued your treasured shaving artifacts!
Gary

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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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Had a leisurely three-pass shave with The giant Zowada 01 chopper today, using some old Conk Bay Rum and lime melted together just for the scent. As I shaved I thought about the huge honing experiment I did before moving house, and thought it would be nice to revisit the coticule-only shave. I looked back to August 2020, and found it was the TI Loup et Bellier 5/8 with olivewood scales that had that treatment. At the time I said it felt very sharp, but not as comfortable as a razor that had seen a finishing stone after the coticule. Can I get it any better if I try again?
I dug it out of the ziplock bag holding French razors. Blade is a bit sticky from dried oil, so I washed it off with soap and water, rinsed it and did the running water/coticule progression. 10 back and forths on one side, then the other, then 9 back and forths and so on. Once I had the last single back and forth, I did ten edge leading strokes alternating sides. The edge feels very fine to my thumb - that really fine low amplitude vibration that indicates a good edge. I haven't stropped it yet, and that can wait until I'm about to use it in a few days. Better let the stubble grow a bit first. I'll report when I try it out.

C.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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Decided two days' stubble would be enough, so I stropped the TI on all three Kanayamas (canvas, suede and Cordovan) and lathered up with some old Trumper Rose cream. The shave was as easy and comfortable as any I've had, including cross and against passes. Glassy smooth at the end and no sting with aftershave. I generally use 1/2 or more often 1/4 hollow razors, and all I can say was that I could tell this was a full hollow blade—just a little less stiff than my thicker blades, though probably mitigated by the fact it is a little 5/8 blade and the old TI 'silver steel' is very stiff.
This is a better result than the last time I shaved with this razor honed on a coticule alone. I didn't cut a new bevel last time or this time, so either it was the effect of a second time on the coticule, or maybe it was the better strop, which I think came along after the first try. I'm strongly tempted to see if I can get the same result with a thicker grind, and I suppose it would make sense to try a 5/8 SuperGnome half hollow, then maybe the 6/8 version, which would keep the steel the same. (I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the 6/8 SuperGnomes came out before TI changed their steel.)

Chris
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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I couldn't wait two days, so the 5/8 SuperGnome was honed on the coticule with the same progression and stropped. The shave was even better than yesterday's Loup et Bellier. Shorter stubble from a single day's growth, but also the pleasing nature of a thicker grind. Very little sensation of being shaved - I'm probably not the only person who, as a child, was handed a safety razor by my father with no blade in it, and he had me shave while he did the same. Well this wasn't that friction free, but almost. I've worked on my best razors with various finishing stones or pastes, and can get get even closer to that sensation-free shave, but this was 90% of the way.

So why did I never discover this before? Some excuses:
- I don't think of a coticule as a finishing stone
- Only in the last few years did I discover the back-and-forth honing under running water trick
- And maybe it's better this time because I'm doing it to razors that have been honed all the way including a finishing stone
- did I get better at honing? Probably not in the last couple of years, and I've been honing for nearly twenty.

I'm encouraged to go further still. I took out a 6/8 SuperGnome (I have two and I never liked them like the 5/8 version. Possibly the steel change was responsible. I have asked TI if they can clarify which kind of steel was used in them) and put it on the coticule today, so tomorrow I shall see how it goes. After that? I'm pretty sure I once tried a Livi with a coticule-only hone, and found it a bit rough. But Damasteel is tough rather than hard (difference). I think I'll keep at this for a while.

Chris
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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The 6/8 Super Gnome gave an average shave, not as effortless and free of sensation as the last two, but there again, I never did like it that much, and this as good as I have ever got it. I wonder if a second go on the coticule will make it as good as the others? I've honed one of the 7/8 TI Eagles today, and it feels as if it will be the sharpest so far, but it always did take a great edge. Tomorrow I'll find out for sure. If this keeps up, I may get into the seven day set of 6/8 Eagles.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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The 7/8 Eagle wasn't quite as sensation-free as the 5/8 Super Gnome, but it was just as close. Going to try my luck tomorrow with the oldest Livi, a briar-scaled, riveted 7/8 Blue Tongue.

Chris
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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I'm puzzled and delighted, both. Delighted as the Livi came out as good or better than the TIs honed this way. Damasteel is funny stuff, very tough, but not of ultimate hardness. Likely scores higher for being malleable and ductile than hard. And yet, once sharp, you can shave with it for months. A great and comfortable shave, very smooth. Two tiny weepers, despite my careful technique, testify to the sharpness.
Puzzled, as I think I have done this before and not been impressed. So am I, doing just what I have done before, suddenly better at it? Or is there some counterintuitive factor here, where a razor gets honed all the way to the very finest of hones, and then shaves better when taken back a step or two to a humble coticule? I can see some experiments that might throw some light:
1. hone a Livi all the way to my best stone (Chosera 1k, Belgian Blue, Coticule, translucent Arkansas, surgical black Arkansas)
2. hone a Livi the same way but stop at the coticule
3. compare the above razors with the current one, which has been through 1, and then the coticule part of 2.

I probably don't need option #1: I have done that many times, and today has shown me that option #3 is better. The interesting question is whether #2 or #3 is best? The expected, or the surprise counterintuitive?
Or shall I just enjoy what I have? I'm afraid the itch for knowledge is going to take me deeper. And if #3 turns out best, how to explain it? A wise medical researcher once told me not to ask any questions I wasn't prepared to answer (and I think trial lawyers have a similar saying, except they have to know the answer in advance).

Chris

PS A Livi using the same kind of Blue Tongue (later versions had a kind of sparkle to the steel, and I think the composition may have changed) has had a new bevel cut and gone from the Chosera 1K to the Belgian Blue and then the coticule. Comparison shaves over the next couple of days.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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I did some careful searches and found I'm retracing my old steps: https://forum.shavemyface.com/viewtopic ... 53#p699953

I wish I'd recorded then in detail how it felt. If it had been as good as today's shave I'd have been doing it ever since. And by the by, I see 3" wide coticules are hard to find now, with the only one I came across being >$500USD! Narrower ones are just as good, as long as you have the gifted hands that can make x-strokes work as well as the direct strokes that clumsy bastards like me use.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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So the ebony-scaled Livi gave me a very close shave, but just a bit "scrapy" - it feels like the blade will need to be stropped a few times to calm that edge down a little. So I don't need to come up with an explanation for why it is better to hone all the way to Arkansas level and then go back a step: it works just as well to stop at the coticule. I must be doing something just a bit better than previous tries at doing this.

C.
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

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Two more shaves to report. A second go with the ebony Livi showed that more stropping has calmed the edge, and it was smooth and comfortable. Then I waited two days and honed my second 5/8 Super Gnome (Chosera 1k, BB and coticule using the method described above). Stropped it well and just had one of the best shaves ever! Sensation-free cutting, and super smooth afterwards.
This is interesting, as this particular Super Gnome came after my original and has a laser-etched tang, rather than stamped. Even so, it was before the 'Carbonsong' steel (which may just be a new name for the old Sheffield silver steel rather than a new steel altogether. Maybe just sans lead-hardening, which is frowned on for health and safety reasons by the EU.) I never liked it as much as the original, and it never seemed to get as sharp, but now it has. That's probably the Chosera responsible, rather than stopping at the coticule, as I never had the Chosera back in the olden days.
So I now have two 5/8 Super Gnomes that are excellent. I think I have two more 5/8 in storage, and the less satisfactory pair of 6/8 Super Gnomes could go back and start from scratch on the Chosera. They may end up as good next time, as I just coticuled them last week. I have another TI half-hollow too, the budget version "1937 Spécial Coiffeur." I could make a seven day set of TI half-hollows!
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Re: What Did You Hone Today?

Post by drmoss_ca »

Honed the 6/8 Super Gnome from scratch, and it was indeed very good. Not quite as good as the second 5/8. For tomorrow, I have taken the older 5/8 Super Gnome through the full set (Chosera, BB, coticule). It always was a better shaver than the newer one, and maybe it will outshine it now.

C.
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