Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

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brothers
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Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by brothers »

That's all I know. This was announced a couple of days ago on one of the more active shaving forums.
MWF without tallow 2023 (2).jpeg
MWF without tallow 2023 (2).jpeg (225.74 KiB) Viewed 1035 times
Gary

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Brutus
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by Brutus »

I really do like Mitchell’s Wool Fat and I do not belong to the crowd that believes the end of the world is near :( when a manufacturer drops tallow from the list of ingredients.

That tallow craze is way overblown IMO, as Haslinger demonstrated when they dropped tallow in 2017 and their shaving soap performed afterwards pretty much as before.

But I as my current puck of MWF is nearing its end, I was curious and wanted to get my hands on a puck of the non-tallow MWF version, which turned out to be more difficult than I thought.
Most places, including my usual source, still stock the tallow version, so there seems to be plenty going around, if one should feel the urge to stock up on tallow MWF. In the end I ordered the new version from Connaught in the U.K.

There have been endless debates in other forums as to why MWF would do this, because it still does not make the new MWF shaving soap vegan.
My take is that some people feel more comfortable using products where no animal was harmed in its production (similar to some people preferring horse hair shaving brushes over boar or badger) without necessarily having the desire to turn into vegans.

What is more interesting to me is that MWF now uses a palm and palm kernel based soap base (acc. to Connaught), which may raise a few hackles because of deforestation concerns.


In any case, I hope the new puck arrives before long.
If I should not like it, I could then still pick up a few pucks of the old formula - or switch to Haslinger Sheep Milk. :-k



B.
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by CMur12 »

This could be a serious threat to Wendell's quality of life!

- Murray
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drmoss_ca
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by drmoss_ca »

Where does tallow go, these days. Used to be candles, then soaps, but what's left? Lipstick?

C.
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by Brutus »

There are some interesting theories floating around as to why tallow is disappearing from shaving soaps’ list of ingredients.
Some might even contradict each other.

One theory has it that the demand for biofuels reduces the amount of tallow that is available to soap makers.
Looking at the price of automotive fuels, I wonder whether (even lower grade) tallow is an economical raw material for biofuel, but government incentives might make the use of tallow for this purpose economically more viable.

Some theories have it that tallow has become too expensive and soap makers are forced to look for cheaper alternatives and sodium and potassium palmate fit that bill. But if tallow has become too expensive for soaps, how could it be economical for biofuels, even with subsidies?

Based on what the owner of Haslinger Soaps in Austria told me in 2017, I became convinced that the move away from tallow in soaps was driven by the desire of customers to move away from products that contain ingredients for the production of which animals are harmed. So tallow would be unsavoury, while lanolin would be fine.

The problem with that theory, in the context of the recent MFW reformulation, is that the harmful effects of large-scale production of palm oils and palm kernel oils on biodiversity, wildlife, soil erosion & degradation, the environment, and human health are well documented. So I doubt that someone who objects to the use of tallow for ethical reasons should reach for palm/palm kernel oils as a more acceptabl alternative.


Leaving biofuel, environmental and ethical aspects aside, the simplest explanation might be that (whatever the burden on the environment) palm oils and palm kernel oils are a cheaper raw material to make soap than tallow.



B.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

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drmoss_ca
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by drmoss_ca »

Seems to me that as long as we drink cows' milk, and eat beef, there will be tallow that ought not be wasted. I've written before about the silly people who want to save the cows, but don't seem to mind the clear cutting of New Guinea forests to make palm plantations, and which have driven the orang to the verge of extinction.

C.
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by Brutus »

drmoss_ca wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:35 am Seems to me that as long as we drink cows' milk, and eat beef, there will be tallow that ought not be wasted. I've written before about the silly people who want to save the cows, but don't seem to mind the clear cutting of New Guinea forests to make palm plantations, and which have driven the orang to the verge of extinction.

C.
Precisely…

Before my retirement as an airline pilot, I flew over Malaysia (26% of 2019 world palm oil production) and Indonesia (58% of 2019 world palm oil production) and I have seen the haze it creates when the jungle is slashed and burned to make way for palm oil monocultures.
Even from 35,000 feet it was not a pretty picture, let alone the effects of having to breathe the haze and smog on the ground and in the already polluted mega-cities.

But if we saved the tallow from a few cows (and use it for biofuels instead), we can put a badge on our chest that we care for the environment, right? =D>
Who cares what happens in Malaysia and Indonesia?

In this whole Mitchell’s tallow debate I am pretty disinterested, but what goes against my grain is what they use to replace the tallow with.


Silly me…


B.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by drmoss_ca »

Brutus wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:15 am
Silly me…

B.
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by EL Alamein »

Looking at the new ingredients list it looks like they've moved to a more potassium stearate based soap. I'm fine with that. Those types of soaps perform outstanding for me, even in my hard water.

If I recall, a lot of old formula shaving soaps are more potassium stearate based, like the vaunted old formula No. 89 that lathers like crazy. And I think potassium stearate can be made from tallow or vegetable sources so who knows.

To me there is little performance difference between a tallow based soap and a potassium stearate based soap, if any at all. If anything the potassium stearate based soaps seem a touch more creamy to me which I like very much.

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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by drmoss_ca »

It depends on the amounts of potassium and sodium stearate. The sodium salt makes the soap harder, and the potassium improves foaming (even in cold, hard or salt water). I settled on half and half for my soap, using vegetable stearate and lard instead of tallow.

C.
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by Sam »

Hope it does not affect the face soap, bath soap
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blantyre
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by blantyre »

At least they haven’t dropped the lanolin yet. Once that goes what will they call it? The soap that formerly contained wool fat?
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Re: Mitchell's Wool Fat soap no longer contains tallow

Post by drmoss_ca »

Or they'll use some weasel quotes: Mitchell's "Wool Fat" Soap.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
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