Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

What is your opinion on fine shaving creams and hard soaps? Do you like Trumpers, Coates, Taylors, Truefitt & Hill? Post your reviews and opinions here!
Post Reply
brothers
Posts: 21514
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by brothers »

Penhaligon's Sartorial shaving soap

Somewhere within the archives of SMF there lies a statement I read long ago and will never forget. "This just may be the finest shaving soap made". Pretty strong statement coming from one of the most qualified enthusiasts. He was referring to the discontinued tallow recipe English Fern shaving soap.

Made in England - legendary manufacturer - triple milled - rock hard - long lasting - heavenly masculine fragrance - expensive - currrent production.

Penhaligons reformulated their soaps and created a non-tallow formula they can be proud of. English Fern is discontinued in soap format but still exists as a Fragrance as far as I know. Blenheim Bouquet is still a shaving soap, along with two new fragrances, Sartorial and Bayolea.

A vigorous 15 second brush loading lathered on the face yields a lush snowbank of the wonderfully scented (to my nose, YMMV) lather that provides all of the desirable properties that matter to me while shaving.

The puck weighs 100g new, and after 17 days I am recording a usage rate of ~~~ 1g per shave. This would mean a puck should last around 3 1/2 months of daily use. The only other shaving soap that has lasted that long for me is Martin de Candre Fougere (100 shaves with 15 - 20 second loading time). Second place was Valobra stick (77 shaves) and third was AOS tallow (discontinued - 66 shaves).

I must say that I had become repulsed and almost nauseated with the fragrances of MdC and the Valobra long before the soap finally ran out. It rings true that familiarity seems to breed contempt in my case, at least it did with these two specific soap fragrances. I will probably not push my luck with the Sartorial. This is a fragrance I hope to love forever.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
User avatar
BPman
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:57 am

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by BPman »

But the Valobra shave stick is unscented. To my nose it just smells like soap. :?
brothers
Posts: 21514
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by brothers »

My nose was picking up something, I didn't object to it until about a month after using it daily. It began to grow more disagreeable every day and now I loath it.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
CMur12
Posts: 7461
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:41 pm
Location: Moses Lake, Washington, USA

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by CMur12 »

The Valobra Shave Stick is mildly fragranced, some more than others. I'm sensitive to fragrances, but this one doesn't bother me much. If it is too strong, I unwrap the stick and leave in in the garage until the fragrance dissipates.

- Murray
User avatar
fallingwickets
Clive the Thumb
Posts: 8813
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:59 am

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by fallingwickets »

Im going to have to try a puck...thanks gary

clive
de gustibus non est disputandum
brothers
Posts: 21514
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Re: Valobra original stick

Post by brothers »

Valobra - out of business - too bad. I had a few encounters, but by the end of my own few hard soap sticks, I had grown to repulsion by the underlying scent and never missed it once it was gone from my house. A few years back they introduced a handful of fragrances in addition to the old original that was for years their one and only, and I could smell it in C&S and AOS when Valobra supplied those (and others?) with the soap base they used. I wasn't a customer at the end of their existence (ironically - just a guess - neither were C&S and AOS, I think) and my personal opinion is that they stunk themselves out of business. As repulsive as was the scent, the tallow performance was their best attraction.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
User avatar
drmoss_ca
Admin
Posts: 10731
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:39 pm

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by drmoss_ca »

The Valobra based soaps like those from Arran Aromatics, AoS and C&S all had their own fragrance. There was an underlying chalky or clay-like component that was common to all of them - is that what offended you, or was it the mild scent of Valobra's own hard soap/stick?
I used the Valobra soft almond today, and it is as nice and effective as Cella, Vitos or P.160, but that's a different beast altogether.

I haven't kept up with reformulations. I have Harris and Taylor soaps that are excellent, but they are certainly old stock and the new might not be the same. I know my Trumper, AoS, and Penhaligon's soaps are old formulae, and so many others are gone altogether, like the C&E soaps. No doubt there are many new ones to make up for that, but I rarely find a palm oil soap as good as a tallow soap. I have no problems with those that have stearates of vegetable origin - they are chemically and functionally the same as tallow. In terms of function, our home made soaps are as good or better than all the old classics. If I were any good at scenting them and triple milling them I'd be on top of the world. I guess I could go for cold process soap, so adding any scent is possible without it flashing off. Or making it by hot process, chopping and scenting it when cold but still soft (as I have taken to doing now). No doubt I could grate it, use my dehydrator, repeat a couple of times and make hard soap gratings. How should I then recombine them? Probably need a hydraulic ram....it can be done. When my parents first made cheese from the massive surplus of goat milk they found themselves with, it needed to be squeezed out dry in order for it to keep. It didn't take my father long to fashion a section of 6" steel tubing, fit a fairly loose steel plate inside it, and jack up the Land Rover on it for a couple of hours. You could break teeth on that cheese! Lots of possibilities to explore in the future!

But then again, why bother? Hard soap is hard, but soft soap works as well or better, but gets consumed more quickly. Yet we have no shortage when we make it ourselves.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
brothers
Posts: 21514
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by brothers »

I am referring to that underlying smell. To my nose the basic scent was overwhelming. I never liked any of the C&S soaps I tried, and the only AOS soap I enjoyed was Sandalwood. I go for the simple natural EO fragrances. Never was able to go for most mixed perfume scents. There are a few that I enjoy, but not many. I can totally relate to the image of the weight of the vehicle pressing down on the cheese. :D
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
CMur12
Posts: 7461
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:41 pm
Location: Moses Lake, Washington, USA

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by CMur12 »

I'm saddened to learn that Valobra went out of business, as they made my favorite commercial shaving soap.

As far as milling goes, I think Valobra quadruple-milled their bath soaps, but they didn't mill their shaving soap. Mitchell's Wool Fat doesn't mill theirs, either.

I'm surprised that the scent of the Valobra Shave Stick bothered you more than it did me, Gary. As long as it wasn't strong enough to burn my olfactory, I found it largely inoffensive. I didn't detect it in any of the AoS soaps made by Valobra. I do recall the "chalky or clay-like component" that Chris identified.

I just checked my stash, and I have 20 cakes of Valobra-made AoS, 18 Valobra Shave Sticks, and 3 cakes of Valobra Unscented, so I won't run out any time soon. I also have some artisan soaps, mostly scented with lime EO, in the fridge. So, if I ever run out, I will probably depend on some of the excellent artisan soaps.

- Murray
brothers
Posts: 21514
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Oklahoma City USA

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by brothers »

Murray, that's an impressive cache of your favorites. Whatever happened to Valobra just goes to show how quickly things can change. Frankly, I had almost completely forgotten about my Valobra days.
Gary

SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
CMur12
Posts: 7461
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:41 pm
Location: Moses Lake, Washington, USA

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by CMur12 »

Gary, when I became aware that P&G, themselves soap-makers, had bought out AoS, I figured the days of sourcing soap from Valobra were numbered. So, I started building up a cache of said soaps. I believe I even bought from you three cakes of then-NOS AoS soap that came in drawstring pouches instead of the original boxes.

I was surprised how long AoS actually continued to stock the original soap.

- Murray
User avatar
TRBeck
Soapgeek
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:59 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Hallmarks of a traditional classic hard soap

Post by TRBeck »

Proraso bought Valobra. This article has some information on the purchase. They didn't go out of business. It is my understanding that the younger members of the Valobra family didn't want to take over the business when the elder family member(s?) were ready to retire, so they sold the firm. Naturally, there was some disruption to normal production, and in the interim, an Asian investment firm bought a 30 percent stake in the company. General consensus is that Proraso intended to reopen the manufacturing facility this year and were hampered by Covid-19. It seems ridiculous to me that Proraso would buy out this firm just to let its formulations, its facilities, and its branding rot away, so I doubt any closure will be permanent. Whether the soaps will be the same if/when they begin making them again remains to be seen, but I am hopeful that they will be good, since Proraso's own soaps have improved in their most recent formulation.

I like hard soaps, Valobra included. I enjoy my homemade soap and several other soft soaps, but there's something about a puck of soap that will always appeal to me. I wish I'd stocked up more on AOS tallowate soap. I have 15 Valobra sticks but am nearly out of the tallow sandalwood soap, and I have no more of the AOS lavender. Still, many wonderful hard soaps are in production (most not triple-milled):

Speick, Tabac, Harris, Salter (with the same formula as Harris), La Toja, Haslinger, Fine Accoutrements...of course, some of these are sticks which must be converted for use as pucks, but the shelf life and long durability in use make up for that minor inconvenience.
Regards,
Tim

Why should we not meet, not always as dyspeptics, to tell our bad dreams, but sometimes as eupeptics, to congratulate each other on the ever-glorious morning? - Henry David Thoreau
Post Reply