Armando, Ah, but there's that super good water at work again. BTW, with Mitchell's, that's 1939, not "1839".....sorry, I can't help it...sigh.
Regards,
Gordon
How much time does it take to make lather.
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bernards66
- Duke of Silvertip!
- Posts: 27393
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:02 pm
Armando, That's very weird, because everything that I've ever read on Mitchells, including their own company literature, has always said that the firm was founded in Yorkshire in the 1930s. I suppose they could be suggesting that they utilized a shave soap formula from some older company, that went back to the 1890s, but it's rather odd.
Regards,
Gordon
Regards,
Gordon
Gordon, that is weird. I didn't know about their 1930s origin, but this is what Mitchell's says: "Exclusive to Mitchell's for nearly 60 years from a recipe formulated almost a century ago..." Their own web site is more straightforward:
Armando
Certainly a marketing stretch to say "Original 1893 formula." Jean could probably say the same thing!Mitchell's Wool Fat Soap was first produced in the early 1930's by Bradford chemist Fred Mitchell who realised that the natural lanolin content of wool fat, which kept the hands of local sheep shearers and wool sorters so exceptionally soft, could also be beneficial to delicate complexions and sensitive skins
A simple and natural product, Mitchell's Wool Fat Soap is still made to Mr. Mitchell's original formula, based on a recipe from the turn of the century and incorporating lanolin from the wool fat as the key ingredient.
Armando
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ladyintheroom
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:56 am
- Location: California
Hi Armando
I have great difficulty believing the accuracy and completeness of the ingredients listed for this soap.
[quote]Ingredients: Potassium Stearate, Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Cocoate, Aqua, Parfum, Coumarin, Linalool, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Lanolin, Stearic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Etidronate, C177891[/quote]
True soap (one being >50% soap salts created from oils and an alkali) sold with only the intention of cleaning the body are generally regaurded as safe and are not regulated by the FDA. There is no requirement that any ingredients be listed. It is required that if some ingredients are listed ALL ingredients are to be listed. Ingredients are to be listed by amount used (by weight) from most to least.
I googled the soap looking for more info and was surprised to see a hard soap. The listed ingredients look as if they should create a cream type soap as both potassium and sodium are there. When you see potassium...... or sodium...... that is the fat and the type of alkali that make the soap. Potassium hydroxide is used the make liquid soaps and sodium hydroxide is used to make hard soaps. Very strange the potassium is even listed first so it should be the dominant lye. I personally like to list my ingredients by what goes into a product not what comes out. Ingredients listed like this make me think of saying cake with frosting and sprinkles when I know there are eggs, sugar and flour in there. Many soapmakers choose to list ingredients like this because they think consumers will be frightened by the word lye.
Back to the ingredients. The first ingrdeient is stearic. Stearic is a fatty acid. It is a waxy substance that does create very creamy lather. Tallow is second. This is simply rendered beef fat. Cocoate is soaponified coconut oil. Aqua is water. Parfum is fragrance. Coumarin in cosmetics is usually a fragrance but can change function when mixed with other things. Fragrance is usually 5% or less of a soap recipe. Any ingredients listed after it are usually small amounts. I have no idea what C177891 is. I am very surprised to see EDTA! Hard soaps do not need preservatives as they do not contain water once cured. Cream soaps if used properly do not require a preservative. They are naturally alkaline and soap has a natural osmotic pressure that does not encourage bacterial growth. preservatives are added as a safegaurd as manufacturers know consumers will dip fingers and brushes in the soap that will introduce contaminants.
I do like to see ingredients on products to give me an idea how they work. Some of this one makes sense and some just has me scratching my head.
Just for comparison the ingredients for my cream soap are as follows:
Water, Aloe vera juice, stearic acid, castor oil, potassium hydroside, glycerin, honey, shea butter, avacado oil, coconut oil, fragrance, bentonite clay, sodium hydroxide, ***, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate (preservative), silk fibers.
*** is where the surfactants will be if I decide to include them. I am looking at Sodium lauroyl lactylate (natural made from coconut oil and milk) and decyl glucoside (natural made by reacting corn starch and suger with alcohol). Both are considered very gentle and appropriate for those with sensitive skin.
Such a long post hope it is not too much info.
Feel free to ask any questions I love to talk soap.
J
I have great difficulty believing the accuracy and completeness of the ingredients listed for this soap.
[quote]Ingredients: Potassium Stearate, Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Cocoate, Aqua, Parfum, Coumarin, Linalool, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Lanolin, Stearic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Etidronate, C177891[/quote]
True soap (one being >50% soap salts created from oils and an alkali) sold with only the intention of cleaning the body are generally regaurded as safe and are not regulated by the FDA. There is no requirement that any ingredients be listed. It is required that if some ingredients are listed ALL ingredients are to be listed. Ingredients are to be listed by amount used (by weight) from most to least.
I googled the soap looking for more info and was surprised to see a hard soap. The listed ingredients look as if they should create a cream type soap as both potassium and sodium are there. When you see potassium...... or sodium...... that is the fat and the type of alkali that make the soap. Potassium hydroxide is used the make liquid soaps and sodium hydroxide is used to make hard soaps. Very strange the potassium is even listed first so it should be the dominant lye. I personally like to list my ingredients by what goes into a product not what comes out. Ingredients listed like this make me think of saying cake with frosting and sprinkles when I know there are eggs, sugar and flour in there. Many soapmakers choose to list ingredients like this because they think consumers will be frightened by the word lye.
Back to the ingredients. The first ingrdeient is stearic. Stearic is a fatty acid. It is a waxy substance that does create very creamy lather. Tallow is second. This is simply rendered beef fat. Cocoate is soaponified coconut oil. Aqua is water. Parfum is fragrance. Coumarin in cosmetics is usually a fragrance but can change function when mixed with other things. Fragrance is usually 5% or less of a soap recipe. Any ingredients listed after it are usually small amounts. I have no idea what C177891 is. I am very surprised to see EDTA! Hard soaps do not need preservatives as they do not contain water once cured. Cream soaps if used properly do not require a preservative. They are naturally alkaline and soap has a natural osmotic pressure that does not encourage bacterial growth. preservatives are added as a safegaurd as manufacturers know consumers will dip fingers and brushes in the soap that will introduce contaminants.
I do like to see ingredients on products to give me an idea how they work. Some of this one makes sense and some just has me scratching my head.
Just for comparison the ingredients for my cream soap are as follows:
Water, Aloe vera juice, stearic acid, castor oil, potassium hydroside, glycerin, honey, shea butter, avacado oil, coconut oil, fragrance, bentonite clay, sodium hydroxide, ***, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate (preservative), silk fibers.
*** is where the surfactants will be if I decide to include them. I am looking at Sodium lauroyl lactylate (natural made from coconut oil and milk) and decyl glucoside (natural made by reacting corn starch and suger with alcohol). Both are considered very gentle and appropriate for those with sensitive skin.
Such a long post hope it is not too much info.
Feel free to ask any questions I love to talk soap.
J
Thanks I had always associated poor lathering with limescale / hard water. We actually have softwater. I didn't realise the iron salts would affect it too.ladyintheroom wrote:Hi Will
Contaminants is water interfere with the individual bubbles surface tension. Salts and minerals get between the soap molecules that create the bubble and weaken the bond that created the bubble. Think of it like a crack in a windshield. One tiny stone creates one tiny crack. Slowly the crack gets bigger and bigger until finally the windshield is destroyed.
J
Will
If it's smokin' it's cookin', when it's black it's done.
If it's smokin' it's cookin', when it's black it's done.
Jean, no, that's not too much info. I'm a great fan of soaps, as you will see if you look at my old posts. Tetrasodium EDTA is just a chelating agent to make salts water soluble--basically, a water softener. C177891 is titanium dioxide, which is ubiquitous in cosmetics for its whitening/light reflective properties. It is also used in sunscreens for this reason. I am familiar with the other ingredients you mention. Yes, tallow is rendered beef fat, and is the primary saponified fat featured in some of the richest luxury soaps--Floris, Sanata Maria Novella, Bronnley, Vinolia, etc., etc.
Yes, I did find it interesting that potassium stearate is the first ingredient, but I am not surprised because many other shaving soaps that are hard as can be have essentially the same formula and start with potassium stearate. D.R. Harris is another example. Williams mug soap, too. (Although Williams has almost identical ingredients to Mitchell's, minus lanolin, there is a huge difference in lather time and richness.)
I was wondering how my "super good" water would work with non-luxury soaps. I lathered a new cake of Williams and another drug store soap called "Deluxe Shave Soap" by "Van der Hagen Industries" with "40% moisturizers, including aloe vera and lanolin." Clear difference from my more expensive cakes. I worked the "Deluxe" for maybe 45 seconds before I gave up. I would have needed to lather more to have enough for 3 passes. Thin lather. Way too much work for me. Williams lathered a bit better, but I also got bored with it (very nice Eau de Cologne smell, though).
Definitely check out that Mitchell's wool fat soap, both the shaving soap and the bath soap. It's hard to believe what it can do without breaking laws of physics (or using surfactants)!
Armando
Yes, I did find it interesting that potassium stearate is the first ingredient, but I am not surprised because many other shaving soaps that are hard as can be have essentially the same formula and start with potassium stearate. D.R. Harris is another example. Williams mug soap, too. (Although Williams has almost identical ingredients to Mitchell's, minus lanolin, there is a huge difference in lather time and richness.)
I was wondering how my "super good" water would work with non-luxury soaps. I lathered a new cake of Williams and another drug store soap called "Deluxe Shave Soap" by "Van der Hagen Industries" with "40% moisturizers, including aloe vera and lanolin." Clear difference from my more expensive cakes. I worked the "Deluxe" for maybe 45 seconds before I gave up. I would have needed to lather more to have enough for 3 passes. Thin lather. Way too much work for me. Williams lathered a bit better, but I also got bored with it (very nice Eau de Cologne smell, though).
Definitely check out that Mitchell's wool fat soap, both the shaving soap and the bath soap. It's hard to believe what it can do without breaking laws of physics (or using surfactants)!
Armando
