Blades made with ISO 9001:2000 Certification

[Leisureguy]

I just got my 100-pack of Treet "Blue Special"/Black Beauty carbon-steel blades, and I notice that Treet Corporation is an ISO 9001:2000 certified company. I didn't know exactly what that meant, but Wikipedia is helpful:

ISO 9001:2000 combines the three standards 9001, 9002, and 9003 into one, now called 9001. Design and development procedures are required only if a company does in fact engage in the creation of new products. The 2000 version sought to make a radical change in thinking by actually placing the concept of process management front and centre. ("Process management" was the monitoring and optimizing of a company's tasks and activities, instead of just inspecting the final product.) The 2000 version also demands involvement by upper executives, in order to integrate quality into the business system and avoid delegation of quality functions to junior administrators. Another goal is to improve effectiveness via process performance metrics — numerical measurement of the effectiveness of tasks and activities. Expectations of continual process improvement and tracking customer satisfaction were made explicit.

I do know that a company I worked for that required a LOT of printing required its printers to be ISO 9001 certified.

I don't know that this certification accounts for the (for me) high quality of the Treet blades (all the various types---Blue Special, Dura Sharp carbon Steel, Dura Sharp Stainless, and Platinum---that I have so far tried have been quite good), but it no doubt contributes. Specifically, the continual process improvement is a very good idea.

Does anyone know anything about ISO 9001 certification of any other blade manufacturers? Just curious. I do know that our membership includes quite a few engineers who probably know a lot more about this stuff.

[Day_late]

ISO certification (actually, it was called "registration" when I was involved a few years ago) doesn't imply that a company's products are of the highest quality. Rather, it means that the quality of a company's products is consistent.

An ISO certified company might produce crummy products, having designed them to be of low quality to sell at a low price, produce them very efficiently, and work constantly to improve their processes so they can produce the product ever more inexpensively. Quality means something different from a consumer's perspective than it does from a manufacturing/marketing perspective.

For example, in our wetshaving subculture Merkur seems to produce razors of generally acceptable quality to sell at a reasonably inexpensive price point, and their products are pretty consistent. They could improve the quality of their products and charge more for them. They can follow either course and be in compliance with ISO 9001 (I don't know if Merkur is an ISO certified operation).

[Donatzsky]

ISO certification (actually, it was called "registration" when I was involved a few years ago) doesn't imply that a company's products are of the highest quality. Rather, it means that the quality of a company's products is consistent.

Indeed. As I understand it ISO certification has nothing to do with high quality, but everything to do with writing a ton of pages of procedures and then be able to prove that you do actually follow said procedures.

[Zaniix]

ISO certification is just a procedure thing. Its tons of paperwork detailing what you do and how you make sure you do what you say you do.

[nteeman]

Derby Extra blades conform to these standards: (as per ebay ad from derby-exclusive)

All Derby Razor Production is granted with TS-EN-ISO 9001:2000 QUALITY MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS.

[ScottS]

It's more than just a procedure thing. It's a calibration/measurement thing too. In theory, it should mean they produce a consistent product, but it doesn't mean that a non-compliant company doesn't do so.

[Zaniix]

It's more than just a procedure thing. It's a calibration/measurement thing too. In theory, it should mean they produce a consistent product, but it doesn't mean that a non-compliant company doesn't do so.

In theory yes. it is a QA structure of sorts. I just wanted to point out that it has nothing to do with the quality of the product itself. It is only for consistency so if they make a crappy product you can be assured that every one they make would be kept to the same level of crappyness.

This should also hold true if they make a good product. I would think that its a good cert for a blade manufacturer to have since we all want every blade that comes out of the pack to give us the same results.

as was said before this does not mean that a company without this cert does not do just as good of a job.

[ScottS]

Interestingly enough, it does mean that Treet has a fairly precise definition of what they consider to be an acceptable blade off of their line, and a means to assess this. It would be interesting to know the details.

[Zaniix]

It surprised me that treet used Carbon Steel. The rusting issues make it a one shave blade for me. Cheap enough for it though.

[Leisureguy]

Treet also uses stainless---they offer at least 4 lines of blades, two carbon steel and two stainless.

I would bet that Feathers are also made with some sort of well-defined process with process improvement procedures. Deming, one of the fathers of this sort of thing, is revered in Japan, where he taught his methods for decades.

While it's true that a company can carefully define its processes and a process improvement procedure with the goal of turning out low-quality products, I believe that most companies that go to the effort of ISO certification do so with the idea of improving both quality and efficiency. And in the business-to-business market, the buyers look quite closely at the quality they're getting from their suppliers as well a the price. I believe that ISO certification is a bigger deal with companies that are suppliers to other businesses than with companies selling to the public.

At any rate, having a well defined process does help ensure that you can succeed on purpose instead of by accident.

[ScottS]

There are a variety of approaches to improving design/quality/efficiency/etc. I'm looking into Six Sigma now.

[ichabod]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[nteeman]

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

I notice that with my cats, too.

[ScottS]

My cat is simultaneously alive and dead

[Leisureguy]

One guy pointed out that the one thing that ISO 9001:2000 specifically aims at is consistency, and consistency is something that one desires in one's blades.

Not sure about the point of the catfood comment?

My impression that ISO 9001:2000 certification is primarily used in business-to-business marketing: businesses want assurance that the products from their suppliers will be consistent, and thus assurances of consistency and process management are important. Consumers are less aware of such things, which is why we simply don't know what sort of process management most blade manufacturers use, if any.

[Donatzsky]

I would bet that Feathers are also made with some sort of well-defined process with process improvement procedures. Deming, one of the fathers of this sort of thing, is revered in Japan, where he taught his methods for decades.

ISO 14001, 9001 and 13485:
http://www.feather.co.jp/eNews.htm

[ScottS]

I was involved in a research project at NASA Ames. A few times a year, I'd fly cross country to run my experiments on a piece of equipment there. Toward the end, the whole base was 9001 certified, which meant that they'd periodically tear down my racks for calibration, meaning I would have to waste days setting up again.

[closeshave]

Not sure about the point of the catfood comment?

This is a direct quotation from Ralph Wiggum of the Simpson's TV show/movie. It is generally acknowledged that he is quite simple minded, though harmless.

Ichobod may somehow resemble Ralph, or simple implying that the discussion is beyond his comprehension

Another favorite Ralphism "Me fail English? That's unpossible."



Miles

[ichabod]

My cat's name is Mittens.

[gruffydd63]

A decade ago ISO 9001, Six Sigma and Black Belts were the rage in manufacturing. Now ISO 14001 is becoming the place to be in that it includes environmental management. Before I retired 5 years ago I was involved in all four of these "quality management" processes. As some of the previous posters said, these systems do not insure a quality product. ISO 9000 & 14000 involves stating what you do and doing what you state. You can describe a stifling, inefficient, overly documented system that is fine with them. The registering orgs. WILL NOT tell you the cost effectiveness of your system, only if it will lead to consistency. Also, if you consistently produce a poor product (however not unsafe) that is also OK with them, they get paid anyway.