Injector Blades

[clownjuggles]

Given the recent interest in injector razors and blades it reminds me as an injector razor user that the blades are getting harder and harder to find. It was discussed at one point about getting a higher grade perhaps industrial blade ceramic for a DE razor at one point but the DE needs to be a flexible blade. Now with an injector that is far from the case. What are your thoughts? I am investigating getting a ceramic or high end carbide blades made if i can find a vender willing to duplicate the angle schick used. Any info would be appreciated.

[Joe Lerch]

I had the impression that existing carbide blades wouldn't be sharp enough for shaving, and someone who looked into it confirmed it.

Of course, it doesn't mean nobody could produce a carbide blade that sharp.

[nteeman]

Ceramic razors? Check HERE.

[Joe Lerch]

OK, so someone is working on it. It says it's a prototype and it seems to be 2003. So, I wonder what happened with it. If it's available, I would get one.

Ceramic razors? Check HERE.

[stuff495]

Hello,

As I posted in another thread:

I contacted a ceramic blade maker a while back. It turns out that they can already make a standard Injector size blade. Rigidity and brittleness would almost certianly not be a problem. The razor blade *is* inside a guard afterall.

The problem is that the manufacturers finish the blade finely enough for utility and lab work, but not finely enough to shave with. I'm not sure if it would be possible to polish the edge of a cerramic blade as much as a steel one, but my guess is that given enough time (i.e. maybe in a few years) it would definly work. Glass Obsidion, or synthetic ruby might also make fine blades.

The last time I looked into it, using a better steel for the razor blades would not end up being more cost-effective. The blades would last longer, but would cost so much they wouldn't be worht it.


Frankly the manufacturers didn't seem all that interested in making a blade for a bunch of crazy wetshavers. IIRC the minimum order was 10 blades, so it would cost $80-$120 to even try one. But by all means contact these people, and see what happens. The only way they'll make it is if people ask.

--Vincent

http://www.specialtyblades.com/blade_types/razor.html
are the folks I contacted.

--Vincent

[stuff495]

Sorta on topic, I would give pretty good odds that Feather makes injector blades. Has anybody found out if they do?

--Vincent

[Joe Lerch]

Vincent. I actually referred to your post above. Thanks for copying it here.

It sounds like it would not be likely for a razor to be developed, but who knows? If Gillette keeps raising prices wwe may reach a point where it becomes worthwhile.

[growler]

AFAIK, Feather stopped making Injector blades.

[stuff495]

AFAIK, Feather stopped making Injector blades.

Do you remember where you heard that?

I personally would be very surprised if they don't still make 'em. DE blades seem to be more popular in Japan then here, so I would assume that Injector razors are still used. Also IIRC Shick was making new injectors for the Japanese market until only a few years ago (at any rate a couple of years ago there was a Shick website in Japanese that had a picture of a plastic injector razor on it).

Of course I could be totally wrong. It's a different country, and just because they still make DE razors doesn't necessarily mean they still use injector razors. But my hunch is that they still make them.

Cheers,

--Vincent

[edgebreakdown]

The ceramic razor never made into production.
see link
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2004/12 ... e_pe_1.php

but you can get the details here about who made the prototype


http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/1995/mu ... amics.html

Alasdair

[Joe Lerch]

Othe than the technical problems, I think Gillette and Schick would never allow this to happen. It would destroy the razor blade business. Most likely one of them would buy up the patents and prevent commercialization by enforcing them.

The ceramic razor never made into production.
see link
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2004/12 ... e_pe_1.php

but you can get the details here about who made the prototype


http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/1995/mu ... amics.html

Alasdair

[stuff495]

I e-mailed them and that was what they said. It was posted here a couple of weeks ago.

Chris

Wow, that's a surprise .

How many blades a year do you think they would have to sell to start making them again?

Judging by how popular injector razors are on eBay, they just might be able to sell as many injector blades as Feather SR blades.

--Vincent

[phin]

This is what Kyocera had to say about making a ceramic razor blade for shaving:
Too dangerous! A metal razor blade has a relatively "rounded" edge (under the microscope) which prevents the blade from cutting into the skin. A ceramic razor blade, however, does not have a rounded edge and slices into the skin. Thus, a ceramic shaver would be too dangerous to use. Several engineers in Sendai who tested prototypes can confirm this painful fact!
Kyocera is a maker of ceramic knives.

[stuff495]

This is what Kyocera had to say about making a ceramic razor blade for shaving:
Too dangerous! A metal razor blade has a relatively "rounded" edge (under the microscope) which prevents the blade from cutting into the skin. A ceramic razor blade, however, does not have a rounded edge and slices into the skin. Thus, a ceramic shaver would be too dangerous to use. Several engineers in Sendai who tested prototypes can confirm this painful fact!
Kyocera is a maker of ceramic knives.

I've seen pictures of straight-razor and M3 blade edges under a microscope and they look like saws. So called micro-serrations are something you want in a razor blade. I have my doubts that the problem was at the microscopic level. Probably the edges just couldn't be polished finely enough to work well for shaving. From what I understand ceramic is difficult to sharpen, and can chip very easily. It would probably be prone to forming little chips that are small, but still too big -- giving the blade 'macro-serrations'. (Of course I could be wrong about this).

I don't think that changes anything though for right now though. Hopefully ceramic technology will improve with time. I'm sure that eventually we'll have ceramic (or even ruby) blades that will work for shaving.

I wish there was some way to get a hold of what the engineers found out. unfortunately I'd all be Japanese to me .

Here's a fun experiment: next time you need to change your DE razor, take the old blade and cut paper with it. It should cut it like a hot-knife through butter. Even though the blades are to dull to give comfortable shaves, they are still sharper then most knives you'll ever run into.

--Vincent

[Pauldog]

On some knife-sharpening website, someone suggested a precise way to test sharpness. See how much weight you need to hang on your blade to make it cut through a thread. It would be interesting to compare a new blade against a used blade, and against a few knives. And a DE blade against an injector and a straight.

[Joe Lerch]

I don't buy that explanation at all. I'm assuming they mean that the cross-section of the metal blade is roundedbecause there's no reason why they couldn't round a ceramic blade along its length. I sharpen str8s and I've looked at them under a microscope. Even at 100x magnification, the edge is not rounded. It may look a little ragged (microscopically), but it's very sharp. A fresh razor blade is even flatter and sharper. If the metal blaes don't cut into the skin, neither should the ceramic.

This is what Kyocera had to say about making a ceramic razor blade for shaving:
Too dangerous! A metal razor blade has a relatively "rounded" edge (under the microscope) which prevents the blade from cutting into the skin. A ceramic razor blade, however, does not have a rounded edge and slices into the skin. Thus, a ceramic shaver would be too dangerous to use. Several engineers in Sendai who tested prototypes can confirm this painful fact!
Kyocera is a maker of ceramic knives.

[Joe Lerch]

A standard test for str8 razor sharpness is to hold a hair and bring the razor edge into contact with it. A keen razor easily cuts the hair with only the resistance offered by the hair. A fresh DE blade is at least equally sharp.

On some knife-sharpening website, someone suggested a precise way to test sharpness. See how much weight you need to hang on your blade to make it cut through a thread. It would be interesting to compare a new blade against a used blade, and against a few knives. And a DE blade against an injector and a straight.

[phin]

Hi all- in regards to the entry I made about ceramic blades being too sharp: I had found this info from a google search. Here is the link:
http://www.mingspantry.com/kyoccerkniff.html
I have no idea if it's true. Just thought it was interesting.

[stuff495]

On some knife-sharpening website, someone suggested a precise way to test sharpness. See how much weight you need to hang on your blade to make it cut through a thread. It would be interesting to compare a new blade against a used blade, and against a few knives. And a DE blade against an injector and a straight.

I saw an old news-real that showed the inside of a DE-blade factory. The quality controll test they used was taking a blade off the assembly line, then making seven length-wise cuts on one piece of hair -- under the microscope the hair should clearly be split seven times.

--Vincent

[Pauldog]

A standard test for str8 razor sharpness is to hold a hair and bring the razor edge into contact with it. A keen razor easily cuts the hair with only the resistance offered by the hair. A fresh DE blade is at least equally sharp.

So the weight of the hair resting on the blade is enough to cut it? If that's what you meant, it's very simple and elegant. I'll have to pull a hair and try it on a fresh blade...