Bad news, Martini fans: Noilly Prat changing!

MrSmooth · Post by **MrSmooth** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:10 pm

I bear bad tidings... I'm gonna have to stash a case or two away on this news.

DEF · Post by **DEF** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm

Thanks for the heads up. My standard formula is 9 parts Plymouth to 2 parts Noilly, swirled gently for about 30 seconds, often with a dash of orange bitters and 3 big olives. Never tried the Vya vermouth that the commenters talk about, but it sounds worth a try now that NP is trashed.

Regards,

MrSmooth · Post by **MrSmooth** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:37 pm

DEF wrote:Thanks for the heads up. My standard formula is 9 parts Plymouth to 2 parts Noilly, swirled gently for about 30 seconds, often with a dash of orange bitters and 3 big olives. Never tried the Vya vermouth that the commenters talk about, but it sounds worth a try now that NP is trashed.

Regards,

I hear good things about Vya, but I'm not sure where to find it locally, and it costs double what Noilly does. I'm a 5:1 man, and prefer Gordons, Junipero, Tanq10, or Hendricks... I also do the olives, and use Reagan's Orange bitters -or- squeeze a drop of lemon oil off a fresh lemon twist into shaker, if i have one i prefer that to the bitters... I always stir.

TRBeck · Post by **TRBeck** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:40 pm

I'm not too worried about this. They're changing it to something better and more flavorful that sells well across Europe, and I like to taste my vermouth in a drink. That said, I have grown accustomed to the flavor balance using the current product, so experimentation will be required, but no moreso than when changing brands. I've read about the European version for years, and consensus is that it's very good. Good enough to drink as an aperitif on its own, which is the whole point of introducing it here: cracking an untapped market.

Vya is much more strongly flavored than any vermouth I've ever used. It's good, but must be used more sparingly, which helps make up for the price (but the cost means I won't cook w/it like I will with NP dry). I don't think it's actually better than NP, but that's just me.

Of course, the best long-term solution - and you guys are both homebrewers, so this should be a cakewalk - is making your own. Get some white wine, use an herbal infusion to aromatize it and add a touch of bitterness, and then backsweeten to hit the desired SG (dry vermouth still has a touch of sugar, usually). There's a thread going on in the cocktails forum at eGullet about making your own vermouth. It will certainly require experimentation and probably a bad batch or three: it's uncharted terrain for the most part. Still, there's no fermentation involved, just waiting. And no chance of reformulation.

Regards,

DEF · Post by **DEF** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:36 am

Somehow, "Relax, don't worry, have a home vermouth" doesn't have quite the same ring.

kd7kip · Post by **kd7kip** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:48 am

This is depressing news. I usually mix a 4:1 or 6:1, so am concerned about a clean, dry flavour. I'm not terribly interested in "enhanced '...bouquet, color, and flavor of the wine,' producing a 'sweet, floral blend.'" I might as well just mix up an "Apple-tini" or some such hideous concoction and relinquish my manhood right now.

First Trumper’s, now this...

-Scott

AACJ · Post by **AACJ** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:28 am

If you live in Virginia, the ABC stores here have it on SALE!!

TRBeck · Post by **TRBeck** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:03 am

kd7kip wrote:This is depressing news. I usually mix a 4:1 or 6:1, so am concerned about a clean, dry flavour. I'm not terribly interested in "enhanced '...bouquet, color, and flavor of the wine,' producing a 'sweet, floral blend.'" I might as well just mix up an "Apple-tini" or some such hideous concoction and relinquish my manhood right now.

First Trumper’s, now this...

-Scott

Except the "new" formula here is actually the older formula. It's the way vermouth is supposed to be, before it was dumbed down for the American market. I may be the only one, but concerns about price increase aside, I'm actually happy to have a vermouth that I'll be able to taste in my martini.

Regards,

Hraefn · Post by **Hraefn** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:21 pm

Well guys i guess you can just start drinking highballs.

Rocky_Marciano · Post by **Rocky_Marciano** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:57 pm

always used martini rossi didn't even think they made anything else

kd7kip · Post by **kd7kip** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:04 am

TBoner wrote:
kd7kip wrote:This is depressing news. I usually mix a 4:1 or 6:1, so am concerned about a clean, dry flavour. I'm not terribly interested in "enhanced '...bouquet, color, and flavor of the wine,' producing a 'sweet, floral blend.'" I might as well just mix up an "Apple-tini" or some such hideous concoction and relinquish my manhood right now.

First Trumper’s, now this...

-Scott
Except the "new" formula here is actually the older formula. It's the way vermouth is supposed to be, before it was dumbed down for the American market. I may be the only one, but concerns about price increase aside, I'm actually happy to have a vermouth that I'll be able to taste in my martini.

Regards,

True, and normally I would applaud a return to tradition. However I like the dry taste of the current vermouth in my Martinis. "Sweet and floral" does not sound terribly appealing to me (although it might be very nice as an aperitif). We'll see...

-Scott

MrSmooth · Post by **MrSmooth** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:04 am

kd7kip wrote: True, and normally I would applaud a return to tradition. However I like the dry taste of the current vermouth in my Martinis. "Sweet and floral" does not sound terribly appealing to me (although it might be very nice as an aperitif). We'll see...

-Scott

I'm with you...there is nothing like a nice crisp 5:1 Gin:Noilly martini. When I want sweet and floral, I usually buy Lillet Blanc and mix 3:1.

DavidB · Post by **DavidB** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:27 pm

I can't seem to find Vya vermouth locally. Any other good substitutes for Noilly Pratt? I'm not a fan of Matini & Rossi.

Dave

KAV · Post by **KAV** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:34 pm

Remember when Coke went back to the old formula? I eagerly bought a new can of the old stuff, took a swig and remembered how bad it really does taste.

Mint · Post by **Mint** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:25 am

I've never had a martini...

I should one of these days...

Kyle76 · Post by **Kyle76** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:36 am

A case of vermouth would last me 10 lifetimes. I rarely bother with it in my martinis -- just a splash or two of olive brine. With the brine, I don't think I'd taste the vermouth anyway.

Figaro · Post by **Figaro** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:44 pm

please you can link the bottle of USA version? i,m curious.

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:35 am

I was in a high class bar in the Capitol city of a rural state and ordered a Martini. The young bartendress said she could make any Martini I wanted and started rattling off appletini, orangetini, etc. Said I wanted a regular Martini and she was puzzled. The manager finally found a bottle of Vermouth. Red Cinzano and the bottle was dusty. That's when I decided Vodka on the rocks is a drink nobody can screw up.

StraightRazorRookie · Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:11 am

I've had experiences similar to Squire's regular martini order when ordering scotch. They always want to pour that lovely amber elixer over little blocks of frozen water (what's up with that?). When I tell them I want it neat, they look puzzled. No one knows what 'neat' means. When I explain, straight, no rocks, plain, etc. they still look at me with an expression that seems to be saying, "Why would anyone have a drink like that?"

The moral of this story is I've learned to be very specific when I order a drink in a bar.

P.S. Bummer on the Noilly. Being this thread started a year ago, has anyone done a taste test of old vs. new - or at least have an opinion on the new?

druphus · Post by **druphus** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:46 am

StraightRazorRookie wrote:They always want to pour that lovely amber elixer over little blocks of frozen water (what's up with that?). When I tell them I want it neat, they look puzzled...

That's how I drink any amber alcohol more than 80 proof! Here is Colorado, bartenders are familiar with the term "neat"(waitresses not so much). Its especially ironic that in places where its often below freezing in the winter, people insist on icing spirits.