rfid protection..now we can keep our old wallets

marsos52 · Post by **marsos52** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:42 pm

http://www.idstronghold.com/

this site has alot of info about rfid..and how products to guard againd rfid theft

they have special sleeves for keeping credit cards and licenses passports and id

not a lot of money either

a must have
marc

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:54 pm

Does anyone really believe in these sorts of threats? Really?

Nothing personal marc, but out of all the things to worry about this is really low on my list.

People posting all kinds of information about themselves on facebook and whatnot are a much higher threat to their id theft.

aircraft_electrician · Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:09 pm

These threats are real, and are starting to spread in large urban areas. The good news is due to cost and complexity of the devices needed by thieves, it hasn't really spread outside of major cities, and most credit cards and ID cards do not have RF chips inside of them. If your credit/debit/ATM card has the capability of simply waving it in front of or just touching it to the terminal, it has an RF chip and care should be taken to block it's signal when in your wallet.

US military and DOD IDs also contain an RF chip, but the information on them is so strongly encrypted that even the military readers sometimes have problems reading them correctly.

Another good point is that if you carry 2 or more cards in your wallet that have RF chips, the signals will effectively scramble each other so that a thief won't get any usable information from any of them.

Tom

AACJ · Post by **AACJ** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:44 am

I was recently taking a computer class to finish my degree. The instructor brought in a box and set it on the table in the middle of the class room. A little while later, he goes to his laptope and starts telling us things about our credit cards, (names, last 4 digits of the card, type of card, etc.....), work id information (company, name on ID, etc...) and other items that had RFID's attached to them.

He didn't tell us what he was doing originally, but it was still very interesting that the box was at least 10 feet away from each of us and it was still able to pick up the information that was in everyones wallets and bags. Of course he erased everything that his box had picked up, but it gave everyone a very uneasy feeling.

Oh, and he built this box himself from directions he found on the internet.

This is a very real threat. I wouldn't have believe it if I hadn't seen it for myself.

marsos52 · Post by **marsos52** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:44 am

thank you tom for the added info..

and yes richard this is more of a problem then you are thinking it is

these chips are just in the year 2010 started being used ...and right now
most of us dont have them in our card and id and licenses etc

but you will have then.. the people that are stealing info from them can buy scanners for as low as 10 dollars.. and some scanners can read these
chips as far as 60 feet away..even when there are in a wallet or your pocket etc etc

so you should raise your thinking and up it level of importance
your next drivers license may have one,,,and your next bamk card too

be aware
marc

crankymoose · Post by **crankymoose** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:28 am

lining your old wallet with aluminum foil is as effective and much cheaper,

if your credit card says 'blink" on it and has a little symbol next to it like a cell phone strength indicator it has an rfid chip in it

Post by **Sam** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:34 am

Blink? Ok, post a pic of what this is?

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:41 am

This is very interesting. I wasn't aware of this until just now. Thanks.

jww · Post by **jww** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:17 am

What I want to know -- is whether the RFID symbol is on all cards with such technology. I am wondering specifically, whether this is the same as the smartcard technology now in our bank cards here in Canada (and probably most other places as well). There is no symbol on the card, but you can't miss the smart chip --- it's honkin' huge.

crankymoose · Post by **crankymoose** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:28 am

here is Chase Banks explanation of it but other banks use the same technology and have the word blink and that little symbol on them too.

http://www.chaseblink.com/

kronos9 · Post by **kronos9** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:01 am

Blink

marsos52 · Post by **marsos52** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:19 am

acually if you line your wallet with aluminum foil ,,that may work and it may not and it probably is not..

if you did make a sleeve from aluminum foil and it was double thick and covered in duck tape and then covered with packing tape and all 4 sides around the sleeves are securely sealed that does work

one side not sealed and forget about it..i have seen this already

and yes smart cards are rfid chipped and the new change cards etc etc
with rfid chips are harder to tell that the chip is inbedded

marc

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:48 am

I'm lining my hat with aluminum foil.

Post by **ichabod** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:14 am

My wife and I have steadfastly refused to use debit cards, and have taken them back to the bank and asked for old fashioned ATM cards instead. I'm optimistic that a similar old school stance on credit cards can be maintained, thereby factoring out any other issues.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:49 pm

ichabod wrote:My wife and I have steadfastly refused to use debit cards, and have taken them back to the bank and asked for old fashioned ATM cards instead. I'm optimistic that a similar old school stance on credit cards can be maintained, thereby factoring out any other issues.

I long for the days where we filled out paper slips and lined up at a teller for 20 minutes to withdraw $50 in cash. And bank books in their clear plastic covers, I miss those too.

marsos52 · Post by **marsos52** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:15 pm

richard you had to remind me of that

the good olde days,,what has happened to our world

marc

HAC · Post by **HAC** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:51 pm

A lot depends on the type of RFID chip. Passive chips tend to have shorted range than semi-passive ones. (typically in the under 3-5 foot range, semi passive can go to 30 to 40 foot, and active chips to as much as 100 feet)The bad news is that some of the new active RFID chips have very long response ranges that can reach out to 150+ feet .
Good news is that the chips in credit cards tend to have to be small, and as such are passive ones with a low response ranges (5 foot in clear air is considered excellent).
A Faraday cage effectively defeats RFID sniffing, so any wallet that has that will work. The RFID chips in bank cards to not actively transmit, the response is triggered by a query from the reader. When radio waves from the reader are encountered by a passive RFID tag, the coiled antenna within the tag forms a magnetic field. The tag draws power from it, energizing the circuits in the tag. The tag then sends the information encoded in the tag's memory.

Active and semi-passive RFID tags use internal batteries to power their circuits. An active tag also uses its battery to broadcast radio waves to a reader, whereas a semi-passive tag relies on the reader to supply its power for broadcasting. Active tags can have range increased by using more input power, or a higher-gain internal antenna.

One of the issues we found when looking at an active asset tag management system (before retirement) is that the early wireless RFID readers transmitted tag data unencrypted to the base system (or at least they used to, not sure now). Solution was hard wired readers rather than wireless.

Cheers
Harold

malocchio · Post by **malocchio** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:30 pm

crankymoose wrote:lining your old wallet with aluminum foil is as effective and much cheaper,

if your credit card says 'blink" on it and has a little symbol next to it like a cell phone strength indicator it has an rfid chip in it

...................... I lined my bedroom ceiling with aluminum foil,it actually helps shield you from detrimental cosmic waves and most tractor beams...

jww · Post by **jww** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:38 pm

malocchio wrote:
crankymoose wrote:lining your old wallet with aluminum foil is as effective and much cheaper,

if your credit card says 'blink" on it and has a little symbol next to it like a cell phone strength indicator it has an rfid chip in it
...................... I lined my bedroom ceiling with aluminum foil,it actually helps shield you from detrimental cosmic waves and most tractor beams...

And helps to retain heat in the winter, and reflect heat in the summer --- so good for the environment too!

wenestvedt · Post by **wenestvedt** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:46 pm

We rejected debit cards, too: if the number gets out there and is abused, you're cooked.

I am aware of the (very real) dangers of RFID sniffing, but not yet willing to line my pockets with a small Faraday Cage. Life is a balance.

- Will