Soaps and Hard Water

AxelH · Post by **AxelH** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:55 am

Gareth wrote:I'm a little reluctant to go down the whole distilled water route because of the perceived hassle factor.

Gareth

Dude, just buy a gallon jug of the stuff and use a smaller water bottle with a nozzle thingamajigger (for more controlled pours). It'll get easy. Aren't you worth it?

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:57 am

Thanks for all your advice. I've started lathering the soap puck for longer (>60 seconds), and although the situation is better, it's still far from ideal IMO. Creams still lather beautifully, and since I'm more of a cream 'kinda guy', it isn't no great loss to me anyway.

I'll keep experimenting and see if I can improve matters.

Gareth

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:00 am

AxelH wrote:
Gareth wrote:I'm a little reluctant to go down the whole distilled water route because of the perceived hassle factor.

Gareth
Dude, just buy a gallon jug of the stuff and use a smaller water bottle with a nozzle thingamajigger (for more controlled pours). It'll get easy. Aren't you worth it?

:cry:

Sorry, but I really can't be bothered. It's like fitting a water softener; it just seems like overkill to me.

I can get super good lather from creams anyway, so it isn't as if it's a massive problem. It would just be nice to lather up successfully with a soap from time to time.

Gareth

ShadowsDad · Post by **ShadowsDad** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:58 pm

Gareth, you're getting a great shave with what you're using, and no hassels. Enjoy!

EL Alamein · Post by **EL Alamein** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:43 pm

Hard water does something to soap lather and in my experience no matter how much soap you use it doesn't seem to fully mitigate the problem hard water creates. It seems to kill the natural slickness that soaps have, which I might add seems better to me than the slickness creams impart.

I know the distilled water route seems burdensome but it's really the only cheap and easy way to experience what a shaving soap is supposed to be like when used with soft water.

Many folks keep distilled water around for their clothes iron etc and if anything if one wanted to just experiment for one or a few days this would be the natural route. Just a peek mind you, then keep the rest of the distilled water for the clothes iron.

Chris

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:19 pm

It's more hassle fooling around with a soap you can't enjoy because your water's hard, than it is to get a few tablespoons of distilled water to wet the brush and make the lather.

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:02 am

brothers wrote:It's more hassle fooling around with a soap you can't enjoy because your water's hard, than it is to get a few tablespoons of distilled water to wet the brush and make the lather.

How do you heat the water? Do you use any water out of the tap at all?

Gareth

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:29 am

Gareth, since it's at room temperature from sitting on the counter, I don't heat the distilled water. I keep a gallon jug of distilled water under the cabinet for long term storage, and for daily use, I keep a 16 ounce water bottle on the counter top and refill it as needed, which is not very often. I don't use soaps every day, and when I'm using a cream, I use warm tap water for the shave. I use tap water for rinsing everything after the shave's completed.

When using a soap and a badger brush, I leave the brush completely dry and I pour some distilled water on the puck, estimating based on experience, how much water will be needed to soften the surface of the soap and to simultaneously saturate the dry brush as it's being loaded on the soap. (When using a boar brush, I soak the brush in an empty Fraser's SC tub filled with distilled water first, and I don't need to pour quite so much distilled water on the soap to soften it.) In a separate very small bowl, I pour about 1/4 or 5/8 inch of distilled water, in case I might want to dip the tips of the brush during the process of building the lather in a separate lather bowl. I build my lather in the lather bowl until it looks ready, then I complete the shave. Then I use tap water to rinse the brush, soap and bowls.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:37 am

brothers wrote:Gareth, since it's at room temperature from sitting on the counter, I don't heat the distilled water. I keep a gallon jug of distilled water under the cabinet for long term storage, and for daily use, I keep a 16 ounce water bottle on the counter top and refill it as needed, which is not very often. I don't use soaps every day, and when I'm using a cream, I use warm tap water for the shave. I use tap water for rinsing everything after the shave's completed.

When using a soap and a badger brush, I leave the brush completely dry and I pour some distilled water on the puck, estimating based on experience, how much water will be needed to soften the surface of the soap and to simultaneously saturate the dry brush as it's being loaded on the soap. (When using a boar brush, I soak the brush in an empty Fraser's SC tub filled with distilled water first, and I don't need to pour quite so much distilled water on the soap to soften it.) In a separate very small bowl, I pour about 1/4 or 5/8 inch of distilled water, in case I might want to dip the tips of the brush during the process of building the lather in a separate lather bowl. I build my lather in the lather bowl until it looks ready, then I complete the shave. Then I use tap water to rinse the brush, soap and bowls.

That is called dedication to the cause.

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:32 am

Johnny, I see how someone would think that's a lot of hassle, but to me it's taking a couple of tablespoons of water and shaving with great lather. But if I just wrote that, nobody'd understand, so when I shift my gears to trying to actually describe what happens, it comes across as a massive undertaking, when in actuality, all it is is just using distilled water instead of tap for soaps. This is why I am the one who doesn't understand why some people would think it's a lot of trouble, because it's a piece of cake. The new Omega 49 boar brush I used for the first time this morning was outstanding with the Speick soap. I had lather flying all over the bathroom, it made so much.

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:40 am

Microwave it Gareth.

slackskin · Post by **slackskin** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:35 am

Gareth -

Have you tried putting just a drop of Trumper's Skin Food on the top of the puck? We have hard water at our cabin, and the SF has made a huge difference for me there. Yes, SF is expensive -- but you only use a drop, so it will last a loooonnng time.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:23 pm

Aha!...the trick with the Trumpers Skin Food on the soap!...no one has mentioned that one in several years, and yes, as I recall, it was helpful. Just for the formal record I finally tried the distilled water trip this morning. Eh?....yes, yes..I know...I've been suggesting it here for years because it just made sense that it would help if one had hard water but I never felt the need to actually try it myself as the water here isn't THAT hard...or at least I could always get it to work with soaps okay enough. Well, yes, it did make a difference, not so much in the quality of the lather but definately in the volumn. Somewhat more lather was created but I didn't experiance the lather as any 'better' per se than what I normally get. And I have to add that although I'm not a 'MUST be HOT lather' zealot ( I've never gotten into the Moss style scuttles for example ), I definately did miss the warm feeling brush. Even though the distilled water was actually room temperature, it felt COLD. For me, the trade off wasn't worth it, although again, the water here is not extremely hard. I do agree with Gary though in that it was not a particular hassle to do ( and keep in mind that I HATE hassles ). So, for those with really hard water and who insist on using hard soaps, it seems like a viable option.
Regards,
Gordon

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:15 am

bernards66 wrote:....Even though the distilled water was actually room temperature, it felt COLD. For me, the trade off wasn't worth it, although again, the water here is not extremely hard....

Gordon, therein lies the rub for me. I enjoy WARM lather and I know if I was to use distilled water kept in the bathroom that it would at least feel cold after a hot shower.

I know I could microwave it as Squire suggests, but that involves going downstairs to come back upstairs in my case and definitely starts to become a hassle.

And before anyone suggests it: no, I am not going to put a microwave in my bathroom!

Gareth

brothers · Post by **brothers** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:49 am

Just for the record, put me down as one who really enjoys a nice very warm brush full of lather too. The hassle factor for me is just the same as everyone else. Hot distilled water qualifies as a hassle.

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:25 am

I wouldn't bother with stairs either Gareth, I like things simple in the morning. I do have a compact microwave in the bathroom though which is very handy.

95% · Post by **95%** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:31 pm

slackskin wrote:Gareth - Have you tried putting just a drop of Trumper's Skin Food on the top of the puck? We have hard water at our cabin, and the SF has made a huge difference for me there. Yes, SF is expensive -- but you only use a drop, so it will last a loooonnng time.

Hadn't heard that one before. I'm game for new tricks, however - forget what you heard about old dogs - so I tried putting a few drops of glycerin on a cake of Trumper's Limes. I think Skin Food is mostly glycerin anyway. This soap has never lathered very well for me, but today it did. I won't say it was knock your socks off lather, but it was darned good. Thanks, slackskin, for the tip.

Post by **drmoss_ca** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:11 pm

Aye but this is old history! Glycerine and Skin Food on soaps both improve lather volume, but it's still cheating and I won't have owt to do with it. Indeed, shall I say that those optimists who reported voluminous lather from Williams soap treated with a drop of either had probably enjoyed a drop or two of some other liquid first!

Happen at the end of the day, we could probably delete all the posts on this forum and replace them with one that said "Use a sharp blade, use a decent soap or cream and don't press too hard." But that wouldn't be very entertaining, eh?

Chris

Squire · Post by **Squire** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:58 pm

We could Chris but that would be cheating. Someone, somewhere in the far flung Universe of the internet is in need of our support and counsel.

rustyblade · Post by **rustyblade** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:19 am

Whenever we stay at hotels (which never have softened water) I always bring a Valobra shave stick, it is a great way to get a load of soap on your face to offset the hardness. Inexplicably I always have better shaves in a hotel with hard water than at home with our softened water. But it is awful to shower with hard water.