lathering agents

[nicodemus38]

im seeing the soaps from harris and truefitt have lathering agents in them, the same ones as Williams.

So should the lathering not be improved?

[Squire]

I can testify that Harris and T&H work and Williams is no longer worth the effort. Similar ingredients apparently aren't producing same results.

[nicodemus38]

to truefitt and hill soaps , and harris soaps are good and usable again?

Ive been thinking on those brands a lot for a hard soap lately. The creams im hesitant on ingredient wise.

[ShadowsDad]

I find it curious and somewhat mystifying that they need lathering agents when good soap is all that they need to make. Good soap lathers all on it's own. Heck, all they'd need to do is grab a soap that works and read the ingredients to get a clue.

Yes, Williams is a lost cause even if it contains lathering agents.

[nicodemus38]

even MWF has a lathering/water softening agent.

AOS cream is well loved on the forums, and it has the dreaded agents as well. Ive been seeing these ingredients in a lot of acclaimed soaps and creams and everyone seems to overlook that fact when they make a common statement like
"soap or cream with those ingredients is inferior crap" and then go on to give great praise to a soap that has them.


I get decent lathering from razorock classic, just not great aftershave care from it. And Williams gives me great aftershave care, and during the shave protection but the lather I admit can be lacking if you rush it. But I combined them today and it was wonderful. And I don't remember any scent from it thought, and I had almost NO lather sucked up into the core of my brush.

[brothers]

I like simple stuff, and thinking simple thoughts when I can get away with it. This means I don't really give a tinker's dam about the ingredients, to tell the truth. I know what I like, and what I don't like. Pondering ingredients is counter productive. No amount of forum discussion is going to make the manufacturer pick up the phone and tell the foreman to

stop the production line, I think a couple of guys just posted something about one of our ingredients.

Nope, nobody really cares, except the ones whose products are selling well or selling poorly.

[slackskin]

I'm no expert, and will certainly defer to more educated shavers. However, I've observed that many soaps seem to share the same ingredients, and many creams seem to share the same ingredients. Therefore, I think that it is the proportion that makes the difference, not the ingredients themselves. Just my two cents worth.

[nicodemus38]

the parabens have been dropped from most creams, but the Europeans have still kept using them in a lot of products. Its a proven carcinogen/anti testosterone /synthetic female hormone. Do you think that's something safe?

[Squire]

Proven by whom? Give me enough grant money and I'll prove any darn thing you like.

[dosco]

im seeing the soaps from harris and truefitt have lathering agents in them, the same ones as Williams.

Can you specify what the "lathering agents" are?

I have a box of recently purchased Williams. Ingredients:

potassium stearate
sodium tallowate
sodium cocoate
water
glycerin
fragrance
sodium chloride
titanium dioxide
stearic acid
pentasodium pentetate
tetrasodium editronate

Where is the "lather enhancer" ...?

-Dave

[eyebright]

I assume that he considers chelators like EDTA and pentasodium pentetate to be "lather enhancers". If you add a chelator to a bad soap, you'll have a bad soap that doesn't make soap scum in hard water. If you add it to a good one, you'll have a good soap that doesn't make soap scum. It makes the performance of the soap less dependent on the mineral content of your water (or, you could just load longer or use distilled water for shaving).

[dosco]

I assume that he considers chelators like EDTA and pentasodium pentetate to be "lather enhancers". If you add a chelator to a bad soap, you'll have a bad soap that doesn't make soap scum in hard water. If you add it to a good one, you'll have a good soap that doesn't make soap scum. It makes the performance of the soap less dependent on the mineral content of your water (or, you could just load longer or use distilled water for shaving).

I'm going to guess you're right but I hope he chimes in with his opinion. Would be interesting to attempt to understand why he thinks a chelator is a "lather improver" Oy vey.

[ask4Edge]

Would be interesting to attempt to understand why he thinks a chelator is a "lather improver" Oy vey.

The theory behind the use of chelating/sequestering agents, is that without them, hard water (high calcium) may hinder a soap's cleaning/lathering potential. Reference: http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Inorganic_C ... Hard_Water
I agree though, that "lathering agent" is non-specific, in the context of the OP.

[dosco]

Would be interesting to attempt to understand why he thinks a chelator is a "lather improver" Oy vey.

The theory behind the use of chelating/sequestering agents, is that without them, hard water (high calcium) may hinder a soap's cleaning/lathering potential. Reference: http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Inorganic_C ... Hard_Water
I agree though, that "lathering agent" is non-specific, in the context of the OP.

Thanks for posting. I'm familiar ... I guess I'll assume that's the OP's theory.

I'm in the same boat as eyebright ... bad recipe with chelator = bad lather. Good recipe with chelators = good lather. Good soap is just that - good. Same with bad soap.

The difference will be the soap scum in the sink. My soaps don't have chelators (yet) and form prodigious amounts of scum. Rapidly.

-Dave

[ask4Edge]

Sort of related...MWF is one of the only, if not the only shaving soap which includes Magnesium Sulfate.
This seems counterproductive, since chelators are used against hard water minerals such as Ca++ and Mg++.