Review: Trumper's Violet SC (new style)

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:34 pm

Ben, Well, the scent of Trumper's Violet cream can indeed be quite seductive. That's what happened with poor Corey; it sucked him right in, and in no time, he was besotted. I had to direct him to a similiar smelling bath soap, he became so smitten with the violet scent. And, of course, he'd already run out and bought the Trumper's Violet Cologne ( chuckle ). But my shaving experiances with the latest tube of it that I got pretty well matches yours....and Chris' etc. This particular batch is clearly not the same, including the scent. It still smells as potent, to me, but is different. Really, it's much more like their Violet hard soap; the scent of which I never liked as well as the cream. My hope is that Creighton's just had a bad production run; too much water in the mx, or something. Something like that could, I'm told, actually alter the scents somewhat as well. I hope that's it, anyway. Such a pity that other firms, like Taylors, ceased making Violet creams years ago. And no, for me anyway, stuff like KMW is not an acceptable substitute....those who find it so are fortunate. The current Trumpers Violet that I have is useable, but I have to use more cream, and a pretty 'open' flexible bristled brush to really get it to perform tolerably.
Regards,
Gordon

Occam · Post by **Occam** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:10 am

Well here's an update... having some free time after posting this last night I decided I'd clean my PL8 brush to help rid it of the badger smell it still had slightly. So I soaked it in some bicarb of soda which is slightly alkaline and has some cleaning properties... rinsed it thoroughly and loaded with a bit more than an almond size...

Into the bowl and I started whipping up a lather and instead of the usual 30 seconds or minute... I really worked it for 3 or 4 minutes.

Amazingly I got 10 good passes worth of lather with an extra 2 thin coats. "False shaving" again... 10 passes which really is quite decent though it did take quite a bit of effort to get that and it wasn't as slick or luxuriant as Proraso say, but definitely better than what I can achieve from T&H luxury soap for example.

I don't know if the alkaline setting from the bicarb wash helped, or whether it was just the extra time to make the lather but it seemed decent enough.

As for the question of density, the tub says there's 200 grams, and the volume of the tub is easily measured so if the weight and the volume of the tub haven't changed then the density must by definition be the same. It may have a different air distribution or consistency but once wet and on your brush I don't think this would be a real parameter in the creams performance...

Here's some photos (white balanced so the colour should be accurate if your monitor is calibrated)...

Notice the part I've used is from the section that was touching the inner lid. The other half is as it was when opened. The cream has come away from the sides of the tub as if it has contracted or dried out. What is interesting or worrying is that the cream that has come into contact with the top lid (I threw the inner lid away) has permanently stained the plastic! Some dye! This is the picture after some considerable scrubbing to remove the colour...

Occam · Post by **Occam** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:18 am

bernards66 wrote:Ben, Well, the scent of Trumper's Violet cream can indeed be quite seductive. That's what happened with poor Corey; it sucked him right in, and in no time, he was besotted. I had to direct him to a similiar smelling bath soap, he became so smitten with the violet scent. And, of course, he'd already run out and bought the Trumper's Violet Cologne ( chuckle ). But my shaving experiances with the latest tube of it that I got pretty well matches yours....and Chris' etc. This particular batch is clearly not the same, including the scent. It still smells as potent, to me, but is different. Really, it's much more like their Violet hard soap; the scent of which I never liked as well as the cream. My hope is that Creighton's just had a bad production run; too much water in the mx, or something. Something like that could, I'm told, actually alter the scents somewhat as well. I hope that's it, anyway. Such a pity that other firms, like Taylors, ceased making Violet creams years ago. And no, for me anyway, stuff like KMW is not an acceptable substitute....those who find it so are fortunate. The current Trumpers Violet that I have is useable, but I have to use more cream, and a pretty 'open' flexible bristled brush to really get it to perform tolerably.
Regards,
Gordon

Thanks for that Gordon. I agree that the cream is definitely useable but requires a fair bit of effort and more product than what I'd need from another brand.

Still... I love the scent

Occam · Post by **Occam** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:20 am

drmoss_ca wrote:Yes, along with the other KMF creams, which are amazingly good.

Chris

Thanks Chris. I'll restrain myself from getting some until I've finished this tub which shouldn't take more than 3 to 6 months based on my estimated usage...

loueedacat1 · Post by **loueedacat1** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:16 am

[/quote]

The "good stuff" has the street addy on the lid. The "satan-spawned, vile concoction that is responsible for everything bad in the world stuff" does not have the street addy.[/quote]

Looks like I have old violet and new rose based on this test. Bought them about a month apart at Bigelow's in early 2007. Can't say the performance is all that different.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:45 am

I'm not sure that the pot label is definitive. It would seem peculiar to me that the end of a production run would coincide precisely with the remaining pots. In any event, all I know is that my new pot differs in performance and fragrance from my old pot, and not for the better. Feh.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:18 am

Ben, Well, that pot doesn't look too bad, visually at least. Do keep in mind that heavily colored creams like that will stain the shave brush permanently over time. I have a D R Harris's Best Badger that has a decidedly reddish/brownish tint to it from over indulgence in Taylors Rose cream a few years ago. A few claim that they have not noticed this phenomenon, but, many have. Perhaps it has something to do with the water used. In any case, it can happen; just so that you are aware.
Regards,
Gordon

LostInCincy · Post by **LostInCincy** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:27 am

loueedacat1 wrote:

The "good stuff" has the street addy on the lid. The "satan-spawned, vile concoction that is responsible for everything bad in the world stuff" does not have the street addy.[/quote]

Looks like I have old violet and new rose based on this test. Bought them about a month apart at Bigelow's in early 2007. Can't say the performance is all that different.[/quote]

I have numerous pots of Violet and Sandalwood that both have the address on them and don't. I picked them out in person and they are without question the "old" stuff. It does seem s as if having the address is a clearer indication that it is older, but it doesn't follow so neatly that not having the address means it's new.

dridiot · Post by **dridiot** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:17 pm

Hi all,

That's the pic of my GFT Violet , intoxicating scent.
I wil miss that when it is gone.

Tricky to lather though, too thin, it will seems to drag/skip the razor.
Too thick a lather, it doesn't cut well.

And, no...no...., I am not giving it away

The new formulation GFT Violet looks very much like the new TOBS Lavender shave cream, IMO...

Regards,
Jason

LostInCincy · Post by **LostInCincy** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:43 pm

From the picture, it actually looks a lot like a more soupy pot of Harris Lavender I once received. That pot was excellent in performance, though. It's impossible to tell much from the picture, though. Interestingly, it looks like this one has the address on it.

-Dan

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:54 pm

Trumper's violets was the first top-shelf cream that I used, and the scent is indeed very seductive. It remains my best scented shaving product, and I sometimes find myself opening the pot just to have a good whiff.

I just wish that the new formulation shaved as good as it smells. As Gordon said, hopefully it was just a bad production run at Creighton's.

Nitrox · Post by **Nitrox** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:10 pm

Gareth wrote: I just wish that the new formulation shaved as good as it smells. As Gordon said, hopefully it was just a bad production run at Creighton's.

I received some sample creams from Trumper's a few days ago and shaved with the Limes and Sandalwood. I have tubs of these as well, (they must be new formulations because they are very runny) so I can say that the samples are thicker and have a consistency similar to the old style creams. The bad part is that they do produce a decent lather, but are missing that cushiony feeling that gives a smooth shave. Yes, they smell nice though. I have a few other various scented samples and will try them out anyway.

harper · Post by **harper** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:08 pm

I have been using Trumper's almond shaving cream for about 35 years and I cannot tell one bit of difference in what I purchase now and what it was like 35 years ago. I have tried many different soaps and creams over the years including T&H, Taylor's, D.R. Harris, etc and I still prefer Trumper's almond to any of them ... although Trumper's' coconut cream is pretty close.

We all have our favourites and what works best for one man depends a lot on skin, hardness of water, preparation for the shave, the right razor (right being what you are comfortable with).

I think an awful lot of the bickering about what is best, what is not, what has changed, etc. is close to considering how many angels can dance on the point of a pin.

In the end shaving creams, etc. are like women. One man's misery is another man's marvel.

Robert Harper

harper · Post by **harper** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:17 pm

One more thing for what it is worth. This product looks like it has been left in a very cold temperature and has suffered as a result. All products packaged in plastic tubs, etc. are packaged so that there is expansion room if the product becomes overheated. I have had products in plastic tubs that have deteriorated because of excessive heat and excessive cold. This may well have happened to the violet shave cream in your picture ... and it appears to me that is the case. Buy another tub and check to see if it is the same ... but buy it some time after you bought the tub in the photo ... say two or three months later. If it is the same, then the product is not for you. If it isn't, then it may have been injured during shipping since many products are shipped by train and sit in the sun or cold for days at a time.

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:32 pm

Robert, Welcome to SMF. Well, I wish that I could say the same....but in truth, I can't. I've gone through quite a few pots of Trumpers Limes cream, and while there was sometimes a slight variation, I never saw or used one anything like the last one that I got. I'd blow it off as an isolated freak incident, or as you say, problematic shipping/storage conditions etc., but as you can see, quite a number of gents have gotten sub-par specimens of late also. In my opinion, the Trumper creams were always unusually consistant in the past, so this is doubly upsetting. You are, as far as I know, the only other member here whose use of the Trumper creams goes back to the period when they still made them themselves. Michael/Bargepole is the other. FWIW, he definately thought that they changed at that point.....and wound up inadvertantly getting an employee fired because he wrote a piece to that effect in Punch Magazine. But personally, I don't go THAT far back with them. Do you remember the pots with the very plain labelling?
Regards,
Gordon

harper · Post by **harper** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:58 pm

Gordon, thank you for the welcome welcome. I have used almost exclusively Trumper's Almond and I have found no variations in quality with it. Perhaps the difficulties others have indicated came with other variations but not almond. I have not used the lime or violet so I can't say whether or not they changed. I would hope that Trumper's would not make the same mistake that Schlitz beer did about 40 years or so ago. It was the second or third largest selling beer in the US and someone decided that if they changed the ingredients slightly they could substantially increase profits. They did. It changed the flavour of the beer and the product died. It has never been resurrected to any extent although it still sells in small numbers.

I first went to Trumper's on Curzon street in 1969 and started using Trumper's Almond shave soap or cream about 1970 or 71. Since then I have been a steady customer of the almond variation and it is still my favourite to this day. I use Truefitt and Hill, Mr. Taylor, and other shaving cream brands from time to time in my rotation but I find that I get the best shave and enjoy it the most when I return to my old Trumper floppy Best Badger shaving brush along with a good supply of almond shaving cream.

For years I went to London three or four times a year (from Toronto, Canada) and would always get my hair cut there by a Mr. Clark and stock up on almond shaving cream. Mr. Clark, dead now for several years, was an amateur opera singer and a wonderful barber. We got to be friends over about 20 years and I was saddened when I called from Toronto to make an appointment with him and was told that he had died. He knew a lot about Trumper's and told me a lot about it.

For years, I bought the almond in London and then when I stopped going frequently (I am now 77) I would have it sent over by a friend of mine in London. Now, I don't have to have it sent because there are a lot of places in North America where it is available ... including a good store in downtown Toronto that carried the full Trumper line. We also have a Truefitt and Hill barber shop that carries their line but as good as its is (and their West Indian Limes is superb) I still like Trumper's almond best. And, yes, I do remember the old packaging but I was always suspicious that they really didn't make the stuff on the premises but had someone else make it for them.

There are now a couple of other Trumper shops in London but they do not have the magic of the original on Curzon.

Cheers

bob

bernards66 · Post by **bernards66** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:17 pm

Bob, Great to have you aboard....fascinating stuff. Hopefully Michael and Bill will notice this thread. Michael started in at Trumpers as a youth, around the same time that you did, whilst Bill is an American and like yourself, used to travel to London frequently. His man there was the legendary Monty Park, and he has some interesting tales to tell about him. Another long time customer I correspond with was tended to by Brian Sumway for years. Mr. Brian is now running the shop at Harrod's he tells me. These are/were the old school gents, their like is not to be found at Trumpers today I'm told. I've not been there myself, I'm sorry to say. I first encountered Trumper products in NYC in the early '90s. Before that, I used C&E stuff. I used Trumper Limes soaps and creams exclusively for a number of years, but then, as you can see, I developed a case of the 'shavegeek disorder' and have tried pretty much all of the high end English creams and soaps in the intervening years.

Interesting about their Almond cream. The only other gent I know of, other then Michael, who has used their stuff for near that long is Don C., who moderates another forum. He discovered Trumper creams around 1980, while working for the NYPD. And for the next 25 years, all he ever used was Trumpers Almond. He used to go through all kinds of complicated stuff to get it years ago; going to the ariport to fill out customs forms, all sorts of rigamorole....he was that hooked on it ( chuckle ), It's funny too because it's really one of my favourite Trumper creams, and yet, I've never owned a single pot of it, only tubes, Yeah, apparently, they really did make it themselves until sometime in the early to mid '80s. I assume at their Fairbridge Road facility at that point. And to this day, they do still blend their own colognes and a some other items.

Well, I don't know exactly what's going on....but there have been some problems of late. It does seem uneven though. A few experianced members, like Ken, claim that their more recent pots of cream have been fine; but the majority have gotten ones that clearly are not quite up to snuff. And with some of the Harris's creams, it's blatantly obvious that something has changed, at least with them. With the Trumpers it's not THAT obvious, but some of the creams definately look and smell differently, and they don't lather that well. And with Trumper, that's unheard of, as you know. My hope is that there was just an 'off' production run at Creighton's, because as you say, for them to deliberately cheapen their formula would be the height of foolishness in the long run. And yes, I do remember the Schlitz beer thing, and it's an excellent example of what can happen.

Again, glad to have another serious wetshaving 'old timer' here, and, BTW, you mentioned your trusty old Trumper/Vulfix brush; what sort of razor do you usually use?
Regards,
Gordon

Trumperman · Post by **Trumperman** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:53 pm

Welcome Bob!

What a treat to meet another old "trumperman". You've got me by about 10 years so we'll make you the honorary "Old Trumperman"

The cream issue has been quite a topic of conversation here in the forum. I stocked up in 2004 and have just depleted my tubs of Violet so it's hard for me to get in on the discussions. I will say that the creams,especially the Violet, do seem to look very different from the older batches.

I have an old Trumper/Vulfix brush in Super Badger that I've recently retired due to it being so darn floppy. This condition seemed to come up rather suddenly and I've found the brush to be hard to make a good lather. 20+ years isn't bad so I shouldn't complain. It has served me well.

We'll have to swap stories about Mr. Clark and Mr. Park. Monty retired a few years ago and I believe Mr. Clark retired a few years before Monty's departure.

You are absolutely right about the aura of the Curzon Street shop. The Jermyn Street shop doesn't even come close. The place just wreaks of times gone by. If those walls could talk.

Please hang around and share your experiences with us. We are glad to have you here.

Regards,

Bill "younger Trumperman"

loueedacat1 · Post by **loueedacat1** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:54 pm

harper wrote:
In the end shaving creams, etc. are like women. One man's misery is another man's marvel.

On that note, do you have any general observations on the correlation between performance, scent, cushion, latherability and other important features?

harper · Post by **harper** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:28 pm

Gordon: I use a power Fusion ... which works pretty well. I did some work for Gillette about 35 years ago ... did the PR for the introduction of Trac 11 in Canada ... and came away mightily impressed with the way the Gillette people go about things. They know what they are doing and when they claim that one particular razor shaves closer than another they can prove it. They examine the sizes of cut whiskers under microscopes, etc. They have to be able to do this to meet various regulations. I went through their Montreal and Boston plants and was surprised to see just how thorough they are in what they do ... they actually did use leather wheels to strop their blades. I did a couple of other projects over the years for them .. the last about 25 years ago ... so I am not shilling on their behalf.

I have heard from people who say they get better shaves from their Sensor, DE or other razors than the Fusion and that may be the case for them. A lot will depend on the razor, the water (we had moderately soft water in Toronto as opposed to New York City where the water is quite soft), the shaving cream or soap. The power Fusion seem to do the job for me although I am certainly open to suggestions about using other razors ... except straight ones.

I have never tried to use a straight ... open ... razor and do not intend to learn now.

Any suggestions?

One last thing: Gillette does make mistakes from time to time. They owned the patent on the stainless steel blade but thought that people would prefer a sharper blade (the Super Blue) to one that was not as sharp but would last longer. By the time they came to their senses Wilkinson had take a good part of some of their markets. Also, they believed that plastic razors would only be bought by women and left the market pretty much to BIC. In time they realized that a lot of men would use the plastic razor, too, so they had to climb out of quite a hole. At one time 15% of the total wet shaving market in North America was held by plastic razors. I don't know what it is today but that number or higher would not surprise me.

cheers

bob