The worst and most destructive element is the uncertainty and suspicion that it creates. That helpless sick to your stomache knawing heartache will get in the way of any progress.
While the method to get to it is uncertain getting to a place where you can know what is really going on is essential or the intrigue and worry will act to poison things even worse.
You have to be able to discuss in an open and safe manner the whole thing and not assume or interpolate from partial information.
Even if what you hear is not what you want to hear the knowing puts you in a place to address and solve whatever problem you face.
I note that even in the partial info that you did intercept there is a note of uncertainty about her relationship with the other fellow and I would take encouragement from that.
It is not uncommon at all for someone faced with depression or life's heavy burden to turn to people who offer a sympathetic ear. Many times those relationships can morph into what on the surface may seem to be deeper feelings. There is every chance that this is nothing more than overblown feelings for a friend that offered a shoulder to cry on.
From experience I can say it can be very alarming to find yourself in the shoes of the sympathetic friend who finds their help being taken for more than it was.
I helped out a friend and was sucked into an imaginary relationship with some pretty heavy emails and phone calls. It took almost three months to extricate myself from the situation. Had to get professional help to do so. If my wife and I were not open with each other she could have assumed the worst.
It is a common occurance for people in therapy to fall for their therapist and the industry has plenty of info on it.
Long story short. Get to the point that you can get the whole story without negative confrontation. Notice I did not say without confrontation but confrontation does not HAVE to be negative if everybody is trying to get to the root of a problem and solve it.
Everybody else here has given some good suggestions on that.
Well, just my thoughts.
Rooting for ya
Need help, turn to the comfort of strangers
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GollyMrScience
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 pm
- Location: Alberta Canada
It's her own fault that you found it. She left herself logged on. From her side, she should have had the common sense that if she was hiding something that big on her e-mail that she wouldn't want you seeing, don't leave her e-mail logged on to the computer in your house.
It's the facebook rule... If you leave it accessible to anyone, than anyone who's interested can freely access it and hold it against you as applicable. If you went to a job interview and dropped an AA pamphlet on your way out and they didn't hire you, would you be mad at them for looking at what the pamphlet was?
It's not like you're a double-crossing guy (I'd assume), so you have plenty in your defence that you weren't intentionally snooping, and it shouldn't be that hard to explain your reasons for doing it and the suspicions that you had were justifiable.
Don't worry too much about the kids yet, they aren't involved in this, only the relationship is and hopefully you can keep it that way, so don't think about what you're going to do to make this work out for them, make this work out for your relationship.
You have every right not to trust this woman's credibility right now, and you deserve to have the situation explained. Don't attack her all at once while she's crying or anything, but expect a certain level of respect to your side in this from her, and I'd be suspicious if she's overly uncooperative or difficult about having this handled. The most important thing right now is that you're able to either regain trust in your wife, or discover that she simply can't be trusted.
I strongly advise you to seek counselling of some sort as soon as possible. I thinks it's important that you both remember that ultimately you want the same thing out of the relationship, but she has given you good reason to lose trust in her which is the most sensible reason to end a relationship. She's gotta be able to show you that she's trustable and committed, and you've gotta either rebuild your relationship starting at the foundations of trust, or you've gotta determine that this woman will ultimately be a detrimental to your relationship with her and that it's better for your kids to not live in a household with that sort of silent friction between the mother and father. Trust me, that friction slips out when you have to work together.
Obviously this isn't a bright situation, but at least you'll come out of it knowing just what kind of woman you're married to, but the outcome of this will obviously have very serious implications for you and your kids, Just remember that she isn't your world, and life goes on after marriage. If it turns out for the worst, do your best to pick up the pieces and move on to make the best of yourself and your life for you and your kids.
I'm sure from the perspective of your kids they'd grow up better having two parents who are happy than two parents who are together.
That's all I have to offer, I'm not saying consider leaving her, I'm just saying you should acknowledge reality when you see it, don't let your emotions and fears get the best of your judgement, and just make sure you can honestly tell yourself that you did everything you could to make it work.
P.S. I strongly emphasise that you consider finding a counsellor or 3rd party mediator as soon as possible. A 3rd party mediator can make all the difference in how the discussion goes and how much you take each other's words to heart.
Hope this works out for you.
It's the facebook rule... If you leave it accessible to anyone, than anyone who's interested can freely access it and hold it against you as applicable. If you went to a job interview and dropped an AA pamphlet on your way out and they didn't hire you, would you be mad at them for looking at what the pamphlet was?
It's not like you're a double-crossing guy (I'd assume), so you have plenty in your defence that you weren't intentionally snooping, and it shouldn't be that hard to explain your reasons for doing it and the suspicions that you had were justifiable.
Don't worry too much about the kids yet, they aren't involved in this, only the relationship is and hopefully you can keep it that way, so don't think about what you're going to do to make this work out for them, make this work out for your relationship.
You have every right not to trust this woman's credibility right now, and you deserve to have the situation explained. Don't attack her all at once while she's crying or anything, but expect a certain level of respect to your side in this from her, and I'd be suspicious if she's overly uncooperative or difficult about having this handled. The most important thing right now is that you're able to either regain trust in your wife, or discover that she simply can't be trusted.
I strongly advise you to seek counselling of some sort as soon as possible. I thinks it's important that you both remember that ultimately you want the same thing out of the relationship, but she has given you good reason to lose trust in her which is the most sensible reason to end a relationship. She's gotta be able to show you that she's trustable and committed, and you've gotta either rebuild your relationship starting at the foundations of trust, or you've gotta determine that this woman will ultimately be a detrimental to your relationship with her and that it's better for your kids to not live in a household with that sort of silent friction between the mother and father. Trust me, that friction slips out when you have to work together.
Obviously this isn't a bright situation, but at least you'll come out of it knowing just what kind of woman you're married to, but the outcome of this will obviously have very serious implications for you and your kids, Just remember that she isn't your world, and life goes on after marriage. If it turns out for the worst, do your best to pick up the pieces and move on to make the best of yourself and your life for you and your kids.
I'm sure from the perspective of your kids they'd grow up better having two parents who are happy than two parents who are together.
That's all I have to offer, I'm not saying consider leaving her, I'm just saying you should acknowledge reality when you see it, don't let your emotions and fears get the best of your judgement, and just make sure you can honestly tell yourself that you did everything you could to make it work.
P.S. I strongly emphasise that you consider finding a counsellor or 3rd party mediator as soon as possible. A 3rd party mediator can make all the difference in how the discussion goes and how much you take each other's words to heart.
Hope this works out for you.
I want to thank you all for you help in a very difficult time for me, I think I came to the right place.
Tuesday night I confronted her with the email, and she admitted she had "cheated in her heart". Nothing physical had taken place. I believe her on this for a number of reasons. I also asked her to stop communicating with him and she agreed to that as well, I am just going to have to take her word on that.
As for our marriage, I am going to work on it. She says she can't right now she has to work on herself first, then she can worry about us. That I can't change. I had a very productive phone call with a member of this board and got some great advice. I am going to heed it all and do my absolute best to enact it.
Today I am very hopeful everything will work out and who knows I might have a stronger marriage and be a better person before this is all over.
Thank you all agian,
Eric
Tuesday night I confronted her with the email, and she admitted she had "cheated in her heart". Nothing physical had taken place. I believe her on this for a number of reasons. I also asked her to stop communicating with him and she agreed to that as well, I am just going to have to take her word on that.
As for our marriage, I am going to work on it. She says she can't right now she has to work on herself first, then she can worry about us. That I can't change. I had a very productive phone call with a member of this board and got some great advice. I am going to heed it all and do my absolute best to enact it.
Today I am very hopeful everything will work out and who knows I might have a stronger marriage and be a better person before this is all over.
Thank you all agian,
Eric
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Oldsmoothie
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:47 am
- Location: Greater Manchester, UK
Eric -- this is a good start to dealing with the situation. You clearly did the right thing - not only in acting on what you found, but also by reaching out to someone who can help you who is not emotionally tied to your situation.
Going forward, you may wish to consider marriage counseling once your wife is in a place where she is ready to work through things. Although she may be internally focused, the reality is that what she does even in her own world, will have enormous impact on your marriage and relationship. She will need to come to the point where she needs this acknowledgment in her own mind.
Nevertheless, working on your end will help you make strides forward, of that I am confident.
Good luck -- we are all thinking about you and hoping for the best possible resolution for both you and your wife.
Going forward, you may wish to consider marriage counseling once your wife is in a place where she is ready to work through things. Although she may be internally focused, the reality is that what she does even in her own world, will have enormous impact on your marriage and relationship. She will need to come to the point where she needs this acknowledgment in her own mind.
Nevertheless, working on your end will help you make strides forward, of that I am confident.
Good luck -- we are all thinking about you and hoping for the best possible resolution for both you and your wife.
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Thalay Sagar
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:14 am
- Location: Roanoke, Virginia
- Contact:
Hi Eric,
I sorry to hear about your problems and pray that both of you are able to resolve them. It was good that you spoke with her and once she's ready, counselling should help. On another note, I must advise you to cease any surreptious e-mail intercepts as such acts may place you at risk of criminal liability.
I sorry to hear about your problems and pray that both of you are able to resolve them. It was good that you spoke with her and once she's ready, counselling should help. On another note, I must advise you to cease any surreptious e-mail intercepts as such acts may place you at risk of criminal liability.
Best,
Chris
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Chris
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Glad to hear things are working out fairly well so far.
Just 2 cents of advice, part of being married is being there to help that person better themselves and their life. Part of your role is to be there as a resource to help make her stronger, and vice-versa.
Don't dump her with her problems to fix herself on her own, make it clear that even though they're her problems, and they hurt you, you love her enough to want to help her through them despite it and not stay mad over what happened.
I dunno, I just think that even if they are her problems, that's what sharing your life with someone means, she's gotta be able to talk about her own personal stuff with you even if she thinks you might not want to hear it, and you have to show her that she can talk to you with confidence and that you can still remember her over your immediate reactions. Eventually down the road in a marriage, her problems turn into your problems. I think if she can see that you're there to help with even her own personal problems despite yourself for her wellbeing then it'll be a really good step towards rebuilding a strong foundation to build the rest on again.
In order to gain trust you have to prove honest and be there for someone, in order to REALLY show your honesty and be there for someone, sometimes they need to trust you enough first. If two partners are going to have the strongest relationship possible, then they both have to have complete trust in each other to let the cycle keep working and building on itself towards greater potential. When trust is insufficient to allow the cycle of support to continue, then proper communication and actions need to be present to establish the trust for the person to accept that support and to get things back into the healthy cycle.
I think you have a good woman there, it doesn't sound like she's a worst case scenario by far, and I think this could be an opportunity for your wife to unload a lot of baggage and start living her life more happily. As long as this is handled properly, you may even come out of it as a growing experience with something great in your relationship that was lacking before.
I wish you the best, and I hope you can both cancel this negative back into a positive.
(P.S. Not married myself, just so that's clear to you)
Just 2 cents of advice, part of being married is being there to help that person better themselves and their life. Part of your role is to be there as a resource to help make her stronger, and vice-versa.
Don't dump her with her problems to fix herself on her own, make it clear that even though they're her problems, and they hurt you, you love her enough to want to help her through them despite it and not stay mad over what happened.
I dunno, I just think that even if they are her problems, that's what sharing your life with someone means, she's gotta be able to talk about her own personal stuff with you even if she thinks you might not want to hear it, and you have to show her that she can talk to you with confidence and that you can still remember her over your immediate reactions. Eventually down the road in a marriage, her problems turn into your problems. I think if she can see that you're there to help with even her own personal problems despite yourself for her wellbeing then it'll be a really good step towards rebuilding a strong foundation to build the rest on again.
In order to gain trust you have to prove honest and be there for someone, in order to REALLY show your honesty and be there for someone, sometimes they need to trust you enough first. If two partners are going to have the strongest relationship possible, then they both have to have complete trust in each other to let the cycle keep working and building on itself towards greater potential. When trust is insufficient to allow the cycle of support to continue, then proper communication and actions need to be present to establish the trust for the person to accept that support and to get things back into the healthy cycle.
I think you have a good woman there, it doesn't sound like she's a worst case scenario by far, and I think this could be an opportunity for your wife to unload a lot of baggage and start living her life more happily. As long as this is handled properly, you may even come out of it as a growing experience with something great in your relationship that was lacking before.
I wish you the best, and I hope you can both cancel this negative back into a positive.
(P.S. Not married myself, just so that's clear to you)
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wenestvedt
- Posts: 1981
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:37 pm
- Location: Rhode Island
Last night I spent a couple of hours with two of my oldest friends. My Best Man was one of them, and we were talking with a girl we know who's considering marriage (to a wonderful, wonderful guy). I mentioned something my dad told me at tour rehearsal dinner -- and I was surprised to hear how much my friend said it resonated with him.
"Marriage," said Dad, "isn't 50/50 but more like 90/90."
At the time we thought it was just kind of cute, but in the years since we have each found it to be very true: you and your partner hold each other up sometimes, and you walk together hand-in-hand sometimes.
Our friend will do fine when she and the Lucky Guy finally tie the knot, but I figured it's a point worth bringing up here when we're talking about a guy who's committed to fighting for his marriage. [And bravo to that, BTW.]
"Marriage," said Dad, "isn't 50/50 but more like 90/90."
At the time we thought it was just kind of cute, but in the years since we have each found it to be very true: you and your partner hold each other up sometimes, and you walk together hand-in-hand sometimes.
Our friend will do fine when she and the Lucky Guy finally tie the knot, but I figured it's a point worth bringing up here when we're talking about a guy who's committed to fighting for his marriage. [And bravo to that, BTW.]
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Bargepole
- Beam me up Scotty
- Posts: 2350
- Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:07 pm
- Location: Cambridge, England
My sympathy and good luck. I've been in that position twice. Once was my fault; I'd been being nasty and grumpy and snipe-y for ages (work worries) and along came Mister Nice and courted her like nobody's business and of course the contrast was pretty irresistible. Didn't stop me feeling aggrieved, weeping, throwing myself onto to the sofa etc and generally feeling terribly hard-done-by, abandoned and miserable. Second time I nipped it in the bud because the fellow -- a different one -- left a coochy-coo message on the answerphone and I picked it up. He was a sort of bouncy rather dim chap, no malice but fled to women whenever anything in his life went wrong. Soon saw him off. It later turned out he'd had a pop at every female in the family at one time or another.
The difference is that I knew my popsy was a bit of a flighty one when we met. But it didn't stop it hurting. Someone further back in this thread put the Stoicists' position: you are unchanged. She has got herself into a pickle through the commonest of all human weaknesses, the desire to love and be loved. You're obviously a good husband and a decent man and so I suppose the advice given to me by an old friend also applies to you: as a good husband and a decent man, it's your privilege and duty to help your wife over this patch of rough water. After all, it's no what is done to us, but what we do, that can harm us, and I imagine your wife is feeling hurt and bruised.
If, of course, there's something fundamentally wrong between you, it will show up in due course. But experience tells me that it's not remotely uncommon -- indeed, the rule rather than the exception -- for women to have a (usually Platonic) man "out there" as a sort of comfort or backstop, a sort of safety-net, if you like, though usually nothing comes of it.
We're human. We have our desires and our fantasies. Sometimes they get out of control and we need a helping hand. Who better to extend that helping hand than one's spouse? And in the end, if you come through it, it makes you closer.
All I can really say is, I'm glad I rode it out, on both occasions. Well worth the short-term pain. We place our women on pedestals and then all-too-often forget about them because, well, they're up there on the pedestal, out of our eye-line. But your wife, mine, anyone's... well, as my old friend Douglas Adams wrote about Zaphod Beeblebrox, "He's just this guy." Women are just this guy, too, with all the human frailities that implies.
The best advice ever, for anything and everything, is in an old British poster from WW2: "Keep calm and carry on."
Good luck to you both. It'll be fine. And kudos for turning to the chaps here for advice. Most men wouldn't do that. It shows mighty cojones, I think.
The difference is that I knew my popsy was a bit of a flighty one when we met. But it didn't stop it hurting. Someone further back in this thread put the Stoicists' position: you are unchanged. She has got herself into a pickle through the commonest of all human weaknesses, the desire to love and be loved. You're obviously a good husband and a decent man and so I suppose the advice given to me by an old friend also applies to you: as a good husband and a decent man, it's your privilege and duty to help your wife over this patch of rough water. After all, it's no what is done to us, but what we do, that can harm us, and I imagine your wife is feeling hurt and bruised.
If, of course, there's something fundamentally wrong between you, it will show up in due course. But experience tells me that it's not remotely uncommon -- indeed, the rule rather than the exception -- for women to have a (usually Platonic) man "out there" as a sort of comfort or backstop, a sort of safety-net, if you like, though usually nothing comes of it.
We're human. We have our desires and our fantasies. Sometimes they get out of control and we need a helping hand. Who better to extend that helping hand than one's spouse? And in the end, if you come through it, it makes you closer.
All I can really say is, I'm glad I rode it out, on both occasions. Well worth the short-term pain. We place our women on pedestals and then all-too-often forget about them because, well, they're up there on the pedestal, out of our eye-line. But your wife, mine, anyone's... well, as my old friend Douglas Adams wrote about Zaphod Beeblebrox, "He's just this guy." Women are just this guy, too, with all the human frailities that implies.
The best advice ever, for anything and everything, is in an old British poster from WW2: "Keep calm and carry on."
Good luck to you both. It'll be fine. And kudos for turning to the chaps here for advice. Most men wouldn't do that. It shows mighty cojones, I think.
Michael
People say it's never too late. How wrong they are. --Felix Dennis
People say it's never too late. How wrong they are. --Felix Dennis
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Oldsmoothie
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:47 am
- Location: Greater Manchester, UK
I agree with David. Well-said, Michael.Bargepole wrote: And kudos for turning to the chaps here for advice.
One thing I would add: the overall wise response from the group says a lot about the group as well. Eric was pretty clear from the beginning that he is committed to working through the situation, and the group's responses respected that commitment very well, I think. Makes me proud to be a member.
Hang in, Eric.
Southern Gentleman with 6 kids, and loving every minute of it!
But that also makes it nonsensical to Englischer-sprechers, even if grammatically correct to the Alemanni.
Apologies to the OP for this interruption. Hope the high-functioning autist is doing OK (I have a lot of sympathy for such types).
Chris
Apologies to the OP for this interruption. Hope the high-functioning autist is doing OK (I have a lot of sympathy for such types).
Chris
Last edited by drmoss_ca on Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
