Newbie needs help

[Gedep]

Hi there y'all,

Untill now I've been shaving with Wilkinson Quattro Titanium and I had almost ran out out of blades, so I visited some webshops to buy new ones. There I found out that people use DE-razors and via some research I ended up here, on this great forum.

I'm thinking about changing to these DE-razors and after reading the Cheap shaving tools guide for a newbie I still have some questions:

1. Why change? Does it shave better?

2. What razor do I buy? Okay, in the guide some razors are recommended, but I visited some webshops and I have a few options:

- Merkur, the cheapest one:


- Merkur Futur, with adjustable angle:


- Mühle, a nice design, with a "closed comb razor" (translated from Dutch, hope it makes sense)


What do you recommend? What is the purpose of that "comb"? Should I choose for an adjustable razor (much more expansive)

That you for any insights...

Arjan

[gsgo]

Hi Arjan, welcome to SMF, there is plenty of good information on the forum here to surf through but a good place to start to fill you up on background is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjhIy9rgWQU

There are three intro video's and then plenty that deal with a number of related subjects. Mark the author of these clips is a member here and has been the crossover point for many of us getting into using the safety razor.

Enjoy the video's - get back to us soon as there is always plenty of help available.

[95%]

Arjan - The answer to your first question, "Why change?" depends upon the quality of the shaves you're presently getting with your Quattro. If they are reasonably smooth and comfortable, you might find that you really don't need to switch to a different razor. In that case - which applied to me, a Fusion user, when I started here - you will still benefit by using superior soaps or creams with a brush, and by perfecting your technique.

If you have problems with the Quattro, however, such as a poor shave, razor burn, or ingrown hairs, then that's another kettle of fish. The DE experts here will be of great help to you.

Welcome to the forum!

[druphus]

Welcome Arjan!

I started with the Merkur HD.

I would say buy an inexpensive Merkur, or pick-up a vintage Gillette to see if you like DE razors. If you do, there are many to try (and you will). If not, move on.

Your blade is as important as the razor, so you might want to try a sample pack. I would try the Gillette 7 o'clock Yellow Pack.

[notthesharpest]

Hi there y'all,

Untill now I've been shaving with Wilkinson Quattro Titanium and I had almost ran out out of blades, so I visited some webshops to buy new ones. There I found out that people use DE-razors and via some research I ended up here, on this great forum.

I'm thinking about changing to these DE-razors and after reading the Cheap shaving tools guide for a newbie I still have some questions:

1. Why change? Does it shave better?

2. What razor do I buy? Okay, in the guide some razors are recommended, but I visited some webshops and I have a few options:

- Merkur, the cheapest one:


- Merkur Futur, with adjustable angle:


- Mühle, a nice design, with a "closed comb razor" (translated from Dutch, hope it makes sense)


What do you recommend? What is the purpose of that "comb"? Should I choose for an adjustable razor (much more expansive)

That you for any insights...

There are at least three good reasons to change:
1. You are getting a bad shave and you want a better one
2. You want to try something new & interesting
3. You want to save money by having a razor with cheaper blades


Saving money is quite possible, but it's also very easy to spend MORE money when you see all the toys in the stores.

If you want to try something different, go ahead.

If you are getting a bad shave with what you are using now, then this kind of razor might help you a lot.


Your first and last pictures are really the same razor head, just with a different handle. Some people say the Mühle ones are a little better; I don't know.

[Gedep]

Firstly, thank you all for the comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjhIy9rgWQU

The movies are really helpfull indeed. Don't know yet wheather to go for the adjustable ones though...

Your blade is as important as the razor, so you might want to try a sample pack. I would try the Gillette 7 o'clock Yellow Pack.

I read at the blade review at this forum that the blades from Feather are the best. In one of the movies however these blades are called "Ninja" sharp and not for rookies

At a Dutch webshop I can buy Derby, Feather, Merkur and Timor.

Anyone has an idea about that "comb" razor from Mühle?

[bordeaaj]

Hi there...welcome to SMF and I hope this finds you well! Elimination of razor bumps is what originally drew me to DE shaving about 6 years ago and I have been virtually bump free ever since. Cost of cartridges vs blades was a close second. The conversion to DE shaving is relatively easy as long as you have the the important information to start out with. Here are some recommendations for those new to DE shaving that made my life easier. I found these helpful recommendations on various shaving sites put together after much research, many, many questions, and a lot of trial and error. Hopefully they will help you right up front, without the months or years of searching most of us go through. I agree that using your cartridge razor while following some of the wet shave techniques DE users employ definitely improves your shaves and still offers many of the same benefits of more comfortable shaves without having to learn how to handle a DE razor. It's also a great way to become familiar with the techniques while deciding which DE razor to start with. Anywhoo, I hope these tips help and have fun with the transition!

Leisureguy's Guide to Gourmet Shaving, 4th Ed.
I would highly recommend ordering Leisureguys Guide to Gourmet Shaving from Amazon as it was an invaluable learning aid for me...it's only about $12 and so good I always keep a few copies on hand to give to my friends who become interested and they love it too. The new 4th Edition is by far the best version and has a good section on preventing ingrowns (what originally brought me to DE shaving).
http://www.amazon.com/Leisureguys-Guide ... 879&sr=8-1

Mantic's Shaving Videos
Mantics youtube videos are also a great resource...just google "mantic shaving videos" and look for whatever topic you have questions on.
http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59

Razors
If you do decide to try a DE razor a nice adjustable (Vintage $20-$40: Gillette Fat Boy, Slim, Super or Modern $45+: Merkur Progress) is a good, affordable place to start. They all have very mild settings (esp the Super and the Progress) that can be dialed up as you learn...kind of like having nine razors for the price of one...the most bang for your buck! The Futur is adjustable but is apparently pretty aggressive even at the lowest setting so many say beginners might get frustrated trying to learn with it.

There are several other mild non-adjustable razors that are great starters as well such as a vintage Gillette Super Speed or Tech or almost any modern Merkur non-adjustable like the Merkur HD (except possibly the Slant). Even the Merkur Open Combs are considered very mild. Vintage Gillettes are super popular but I tend to prefer the Merkurs as I seem to get more effortlessly smooth, comfortable shaves with them (though I use and enjoy many Gillettes as well). Many find that Gillettes provide more comfortable shaves.

Blade Choice
The range and variation of advice/experiences you will get regarding blades can be mind-boggling and very confusing. Some strongly advise newbies start with the mildest razor paired with the mildest blade, perfecting technique, blade angles, pressures, etc before moving to the next less mild blade where they modify technique, angles, pressures for that blade, unlearning muscle memory they feel don't transfer from the last blade...and so on and so on...until finally moving with fear and trepidation to the reportedly bloodthirsty Feathers months or even years later. Many ways to skin a cat and all that, but the theory many of us learned on is just the opposite and has worked very well for us. You might as well learn on the sharper blades because you will learn the proper techniques, pressures, angles faster precisely because they are slightly less forgiving. The techniques you learn using the sharper blades are directly transferable to less sharp blades with no adjustments required...not so the other way around. True, you may receive an extra nick or two along the way but most likely you would have been nicked with any blade, and nicks with safety razors are extremely superficial...most stop bleeding before the shave is even finished. And, when you do get nicked (and you will), you'll just feel it less with a sharper blade. Whatever blade nicks you, a quick post-shave dab with a roll-on styptic like Pacific Shavings Nick Stick and it's done.

Sharper blades also have the benefit of being more comfortable, in general...when I shave with a Feather or Kai it feels like the razor isn't loaded with anything at all. Not the case with many other less sharp blades.

Whichever way you decide to go the important thing is after all the research and advice, pick and choose what makes the most sense for you and enjoy it!

Before the Shave: Pre-Shave Prep
Also great for pre-shave preparation and prevention of ingrown whiskers is a hot towel treatment to soften your beard prior to shaving. It helps a lot for softening tough beards and reduces tugging and pulling which helps prevent newly shaved whiskers from snapping under the skin. It's very easy and only adds a minute or so to the shave. It seems to works best just out of the shower as well, but it helps anytime, is relaxing, and feels great too. Just soak a hand towel in the sink with the hottest water you can stand. While it's soaking get your face wet and rub a small amount of shaving cream around the beard area. Squeeze just enough water out of the towel so it's still good and wet but not quite dripping. Place the towel over your face for about a minute or so to steam the whiskers nice and soft...sometimes it's easier to lay down to do this. You also may have to make a little breathing hole so you can breathe comfortably. After about a minute quickly lather up and start shaving as normal before the whiskers have a chance to cool down. A hot towel pre-shave prep makes a big difference in shave comfort, esp while learning. Some do it every day, some once in a while, and some not at all. Hope it helps a little!

The Actual Shave: Shaving Patterns for Reducing Ingrown Hairs
You can make DE shaving as easy or as complicated as appeals to you. There are lots of opinions on shaving patterns and number and direction of passes, etc...most work very well. The Method Shaving pattern passes are designed to get easily get a BBS shave while minimizing irritation and whisker bumps without having to pay attention to grain or shave directly against the grain. The shaving patterns work well with or without the specialized Method Shaving products. Enchante.com has a download of what they call the Method Shaving Cutting Forms showing the direction of the passes and mantic has a couple of youtube demonstration videos as well. The cutting forms worked for the swirl patterns on my neck and I've had no problems after 5 or 6 years of using them for DE shaving.
Method Shaving Cutting Patterns
http://enchanteonline.com/pages/faqs/cuttingforms.pdf

mantic video demonstrating Method Shaving patterns
pay no attention to specialized terms or products
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxFXpdLvG0

When you do get nicked
Another recommendation that would make learning easier would be a tube of My Nik is Sealed or Nick Stick roll-on styptic from wherever you can get it cheapest on the web...far better than grocery store styptic.
My Nik is Sealed
http://www.amazon.com/Nik-Sealed-Easy-R ... B0001LGYSU
Nick Stick
http://www.pacificshaving.com/nickstick.php

[brothers]

First, let's explore your use of the word "change". You don't have to change. You can shave all different kinds of ways. As you can tell from browsing and reading all of the different topics, About the only method of shaving that is rarely discussed in a positive way is electric. Beyond that, anything's possible. Cartridges, straight razors, injectors, single edge razors and blades, and double edge razors and blades are common topics. As well as hundreds of different variaties of shaving creams and soaps, colognes, after shaves, you name it. We have fun with it. Most of us here enjoy exploring, learning about, using, and collecting all of the things associated with the search for good shaving. I like the variety of razors, creams, soaps, brushes, blades, and pre and post shaving products. You don't have to give up anything. Enjoy your shaves! Oh, by the way, welcome to SMF!

[marsos52]

Gedep welcome to smf...as you have found out all ready de shaving is very personal..and its a art form in many repects..

a great and healthy way to shave,,and can be just that or it can become a hobby.. collecting and trying vintage and new products..

also every day is a learning experience and gets better each time you shave..

you have many ways to begin.. many options..

most of te time its best to begin with basic tools

razor and blades
brush and a mug
and a soap or cream

only you know your face,, decide if you beard is heavy and full, or light
a heavy ,full beard may require a little more aggressive razor and the opposite for alight to meduim beard

most vintage gillette razors are on the mild side.. many merkur razor are more aggressive...the futur you posted is my favorite razor ever, but i never suggest it to first time shavers

im sure just a basic model merkur will be just fine...with a closed comb
as far as blades go.. there reallly one of the more personal items that each person feels so different about.. i say to stay away from feathers for sure.. derbys or persona or gillette yellows are good first chooses

learning to make good lather is key and also takes a bit of time..instead of trying two new things 1. learning de shaving 2. makeing lather
if you want a good brushless shaving soap will be just fine and easy to get at a drug store or super market

after a bit..if you are liking de shaving than invest in a brush and mug and a quailty soap or cream

your prep before shaving is the frist step to a nice shave
hot water rinse or a hot shower first sets your beard and skin for the shave

the shave should start with two passes 1. with the growth direction and 2. across the growth after some time you may try a 3. into the growth of the bread for a real close shave.. thats up the road a bit..

you have to find the correct blade angle when shaving ,,and you need to learn to use as little or no pressure as possible..

after you shave a cold water rinse closes the pours and a splash of after shave and you are set for your day...the average time of shaving varies but 15 minutes once your routine is together is average

good luck and post your thoughts and feeling
and questions too

marc

[jww]

Welcome to SMF -- you have already heard for the sages and wise men of the forum. When you have digested all of that remember 4 key things:

1. Preparation
2. Blade Angle
3. Razor Pressure
4. Patience

And of course, realize that every time you change up something, you end up re-learning all over again.

[brothers]

All good advice and guidance. However, you're not required to have a big long laundry list of gizmos and this and that and the other thing. Your first question about which razor to get is probably the beginning of your own personal journey. I'd say, get the razor that appeals most to you. You'll certainly have another and another before you know what you like and want. And please don't operate under the illusion that this is the cheapest or the most expensive or the best or the worst of anything. What I like and what works for me is void and of no importance when it comes to what you like and what works best for you day in and day out. I'm really glad nobody took it upon themselves to hand me a list and say, before you can do it right, you're required to go get these specific things. That takes all the fun out of it. Spend a day or two reading hundreds of the posts here, and you'll understand it's all up to you. This is just the starting point.

[bordeaaj]

All good advice and guidance. However, you're not required to have a big long laundry list of gizmos and this and that and the other thing. Your first question about which razor to get is probably the beginning of your own personal journey. I'd say, get the razor that appeals most to you. You'll certainly have another and another before you know what you like and want. And please don't operate under the illusion that this is the cheapest or the most expensive or the best or the worst of anything. What I like and what works for me is void and of no importance when it comes to what you like and what works best for you day in and day out. I'm really glad nobody took it upon themselves to hand me a list and say, before you can do it right, you're required to go get these specific things. That takes all the fun out of it. Spend a day or two reading hundreds of the posts here, and you'll understand it's all up to you. This is just the starting point.

Good points...everyone's journey is different and part of the fun! I hope my laundry list wasn't offensive in any way, it certainly wasn't meant to be. My experience of reading hundreds (if not thousands) of posts trying to weed through good or bad advice left me wishing someone had taken the time to lay out the basics in list form as a foundation for me from the start. It would have made my journey much more fun and a lot less painful. Then again, I wasn't converting for the pleasure of it but more out of need to prevent razor bumps...I wanted the information asap not over months and years. I sure don't want to take all the fun out of anyone's journey!

[Gedep]

Wow, You all are really passionate abvout shaving! Thanks a lot for the time you all took to write al these elaborate posts!

I think I'll go for the Merkur with Derby.

BTW, on one webshop a new razor from Feather is preannounced:

[brothers]

All good advice and guidance. However, you're not required to have a big long laundry list of gizmos and this and that and the other thing. Your first question about which razor to get is probably the beginning of your own personal journey. I'd say, get the razor that appeals most to you. You'll certainly have another and another before you know what you like and want. And please don't operate under the illusion that this is the cheapest or the most expensive or the best or the worst of anything. What I like and what works for me is void and of no importance when it comes to what you like and what works best for you day in and day out. I'm really glad nobody took it upon themselves to hand me a list and say, before you can do it right, you're required to go get these specific things. That takes all the fun out of it. Spend a day or two reading hundreds of the posts here, and you'll understand it's all up to you. This is just the starting point.

Good points...everyone's journey is different and part of the fun! I hope my laundry list wasn't offensive in any way, it certainly wasn't meant to be. My experience of reading hundreds (if not thousands) of posts trying to weed through good or bad advice left me wishing someone had taken the time to lay out the basics in list form as a foundation for me from the start. It would have made my journey much more fun and a lot less painful. I sure don't want to take all the fun out of anyone's journey!

It's my turn to say my post wasn't in response to your excellent post nor anyone else's. No offense was intended. I'm just trying in an obviously poor way to say that all of us could spend hours walking through our own experiences, and listing what we liked and didn't, along the way. My point is more to say each guy has to pick a starting point and it's a book without an end, hopefully. I think in my case, I was too eager and lacking in confidence, so I took every word of advice or of praise for any certain product to mean that I was supposed to get or like what some other guy thought he had or liked. Then I was and still am disappointed to find out I had spent money chasing some other guy's dream.

[bordeaaj]

All good advice and guidance. However, you're not required to have a big long laundry list of gizmos and this and that and the other thing. Your first question about which razor to get is probably the beginning of your own personal journey. I'd say, get the razor that appeals most to you. You'll certainly have another and another before you know what you like and want. And please don't operate under the illusion that this is the cheapest or the most expensive or the best or the worst of anything. What I like and what works for me is void and of no importance when it comes to what you like and what works best for you day in and day out. I'm really glad nobody took it upon themselves to hand me a list and say, before you can do it right, you're required to go get these specific things. That takes all the fun out of it. Spend a day or two reading hundreds of the posts here, and you'll understand it's all up to you. This is just the starting point.

Good points...everyone's journey is different and part of the fun! I hope my laundry list wasn't offensive in any way, it certainly wasn't meant to be. My experience of reading hundreds (if not thousands) of posts trying to weed through good or bad advice left me wishing someone had taken the time to lay out the basics in list form as a foundation for me from the start. It would have made my journey much more fun and a lot less painful. I sure don't want to take all the fun out of anyone's journey!

It's my turn to say my post wasn't in response to your excellent post nor anyone else's. No offense was intended. I'm just trying in an obviously poor way to say that all of us could spend hours walking through our own experiences, and listing what we liked and didn't, along the way. My point is more to say each guy has to pick a starting point and it's a book without an end, hopefully. I think in my case, I was too eager and lacking in confidence, so I took every word of advice or of praise for any certain product to mean that I was supposed to get or like what some other guy thought he had or liked. Then I was and still am disappointed to find out I had spent money chasing some other guy's dream.

Understood (though, admittedly, my post is indeed a laundry list)...my experience as well!

[gil3591]

you are obviously going to buy a razor. take a look at the edwin jagger de89L. slightly milder than a merkur and has the muhle head. excellant quality and a great price.

[jww]

To throw the diamonds amongst the thieves -- let me ask why aren't you considering a vintage Gillette razor? Nothing matches the feel of a vintage razor in your hand. And they can be readily procured as well.

[merkri]

Hi.

I'd actually recommend an adjustable. I think for starting out it's under-recommended. Being able to adjust things and try different settings is probably more helpful starting out than later, when you've sort of figured it out on 3 razors.

I'd have to second the vintage adjustable, though. The Futur is a nice looking razor but probably overpriced as a starter. Gillette adjustables are very very nice.

[jww]

Hi.

I'd actually recommend an adjustable....

I admit that my forray into DE razors started with my beloved '59 Fatboy, followed shortly thereafter by a '70 black handled adjustable. Both quite venerable razors, and quite capable/usable for a newbie indeed. They both still give me great pleasure now and again when I get all sentimental.

[Racso_MS]

I would love to weigh in on this post, but there just isn't enough room and I don't want to take up three pages to explain my thoughts.

We are "An Eccentric Bunch of Preferential Wet having Enthusiasts". Preferential is the key word. Each of us have our preference for what ever reason. Some like adjustable, some like a fixed head. Some like one razor blade and another likes a different one.

Tough question.

Experimentation is the way most of us arrived at our "preferred" combination.

Mantic has videos on "You tube" out the Wahzoo. I know it takes time but try and watch as many as you can. Then start asking your questions and the process will begin.