Sustainability

[drmoss_ca]

I'm reminded once again by some posts that seem to crow about their superiority with respect to soap components and brush hair. I may have said enough offensive things lately about palm oil, but I shall continue if required.

Now I shall address brushes. You dislike the Chinese badger trade? I cannot blame you one bit. If you dislike the boar brush trade in the same way, I must assume you have given up bacon and pork sausages. If you eat bacon etc, you probably ought to prevent the rest of the carcass being wasted. In the centre of the pork product trade in Wiltshire, we used to use everything except the squeak. But I can't quite understand the superiority assumed by buyers of synthetic brushes. I bought five synthetics and tried to like them. I'm still trying, being stubborn. They sort of work, but are easily beaten by a pretty ordinary boar brush (which is destroyed by almost all badgers in terms of making good thick lather). My stance is this: if you eat bacon, you can use a boar brush. A boar brush is pretty good. You don't get the lather your soap or cream might be capable of, but you can shave with it. A basic badger brush might do a lot better, and a good one will amaze you. And you might prefer to defer that amazement if you feel badgers must not be used by humans. That's a defensible position.

I'm content to let people save their planet with plastic (oil-based brushes), but I'm not quite sure how that saves anything or anyone from anything. If they eat bacon, they are entitled to a boar brush. If you think we ought not use or enjoy any products from oil wells (and maybe you are right) you cannot use a synthetic brush and be consistent. Using a renewable resource that is being processed over and again such as pigs makes far more sense from that point of view. Carry on.

[Pauldog]

Wait a minute - you can't make a brush out of (organic, non-GMO) tofu? Damn!

[JarmoP]

I have only badger brushes that I use, 3 of them and I'm not intending to buy more. I rotate them and will most likely last my lifetime.
Boar brush is good too, just don't use it, but it is ok. Soft, splitted hairs, needed a lots of work and a soap hog, cause it is big I guess.

I have no knowledge of synthetic brushes, only ones are toothbrushes.

I'm a low carb eater and want all parts of the animal be used besides my vegetables.

And I don't want anyone feel bad if they have got some expensive badger brushes.
Enjoy them, but maybe not too eager to get many more. Hope the brush section of the forum won't get upset.

Nothing like a good badger brush.

[brothers]

Animals compete
What about your brush stands out
pork chops, oil wells, fur

[CMur12]

I, personally, won't be buying any more badger brushes, for the reasons stated, but then I already have quite a few.

If cattle were slaughtered purely for their tallow and pigs purely for their bristle, I would boycott both. However, since these are byproducts of the beef and pork industries, I, too, would rather see as much of the animals as possible put to good use.

I have several synthetic brushes, and they definitely behave differently from natural fiber. I'm not sold on them, either, but they're not a bad option for vegans.

When I was lathering in a bowl, I preferred badger brushes. Since I started lathering on top of the cake of soap, I find that I prefer boar.

- Murray

[brothers]

My synthetics, as they came and went, each one provided good and not quite so great experiences until I accidentally stumbled onto the one that thoroughly satisfies all of my expectations and preferences on a daily basis. Reminds me of the ancient discovery of the woman who has turned out to be my one and only wife. Then again, I've had what I thought were a very few pleasant or promising experiences (along the way) before she found me.
Regarding the brushes - I'm embarrassed to admit something went haywire and I've lost the ability to get a great lather from boar brushes nowadays. My favorite boar suddenly started shedding and then suddenly stopped again. Only to discover I couldn't get a satisfactory lather from it or any other boar anymore. My few outstanding badgers are irreplaceably unique and ready to answer the call for great lathers any time I pick one up.

[CMur12]

Gary, I hear you about each brush being unique.

I have three Semogue silvertip brushes with different handles, but nominally the same loft. Since they are handmade - and possibly from different batches of badger, each loft is a little different and they vary slightly in their performance characteristics. The different handles would also contribute somewhat to this experience.

- Murray

[Rufus]

I’m an equal opportunity consumer of shaving gear and products. I own badger, boar and synthetic brushes despite the putative moral and ethical issues attaching to each one. There is more than enough polarization and incivility in our society today to add such positions to the wonderful world of wet shaving. Likewise, I have children and grandchildren who are vegetarians, vegans and things in between, but as an omnivore, as human beings are, I don’t understand why. Nevertheless, I respect their decisions and don’t hector or harangue them about their dietary habits, but we do have civil discussions from time to time.

[fallingwickets]

i must be a bad person for ive never given this issue any thought....i have decent brushes and thats the end of that. Sort of ironic as I cant fish (watching them die triggers me) and can barely bring myself to kill a fly, but i can eat all food without a second thought.

clive

[maskaggs]

Doc Moss’s original post gets at an important point in the abstract: it is very, very tempting (and easy) to make a stand on this or that ethical point, but very, very hard work to think those stands through to completion. A consistent ethic often requires far more sacrifice and discomfort than something simple like refusing to use a badger brush, or not shopping at Wal-Mart, or whatever. I’m all for folks attempting to live within their own ethical worlds, but in order to be taken seriously when they talk publicly about those restrictions, there really has to be a great deal of thoroughness and consistency to the project.

[CMur12]

Doc Moss’s original post gets at an important point in the abstract: it is very, very tempting (and easy) to make a stand on this or that ethical point, but very, very hard work to think those stands through to completion. A consistent ethic often requires far more sacrifice and discomfort than something simple like refusing to use a badger brush, or not shopping at Wal-Mart, or whatever. I’m all for folks attempting to live within their own ethical worlds, but in order to be taken seriously when they talk publicly about those restrictions, there really has to be a great deal of thoroughness and consistency to the project.

Mike, your post implies all sorts of things about previous statements, because your intention isn't clear.

How would you apply your statement specifically to this thread?

I wrote that I have bought badger brushes in the past. Based on information that has recently come to light about the treatment of badgers in China, I have decided that I wouldn't buy any more such brushes. At the same time, I don't need any new badger brushes - so it's little to no sacrifice on my part, and I won't throw out those already in my possession. Is that inconsistent or unethical?

Please consider this a question, not a challenge.

Thanks, Mike.

- Murray

[maskaggs]

Doc Moss’s original post gets at an important point in the abstract: it is very, very tempting (and easy) to make a stand on this or that ethical point, but very, very hard work to think those stands through to completion. A consistent ethic often requires far more sacrifice and discomfort than something simple like refusing to use a badger brush, or not shopping at Wal-Mart, or whatever. I’m all for folks attempting to live within their own ethical worlds, but in order to be taken seriously when they talk publicly about those restrictions, there really has to be a great deal of thoroughness and consistency to the project.

Mike, your post implies all sorts of things about previous statements, because your intention isn't clear.

How would you apply your statement specifically to this thread?

I wrote that I have bought badger brushes in the past. Based on information that has recently come to light about the treatment of badgers in China, I have decided that I wouldn't buy any more such brushes. At the same time, I don't need any new badger brushes - so it's little to no sacrifice on my part, and I won't throw out those already in my possession. Is that inconsistent or unethical?

Please consider this a question, not a challenge.

Thanks, Mike.

- Murray

I definitely wasn’t clear, and my comment was merely an extension of the original Moss post - agreeing with him and then abstracting the concept. For instance, I had just been listening to a podcast with someone grandstanding about not using Amazon because all that shipping activity is bad for the environment...but having no hesitation in buying whatever other trinkets from an online retailer, which obviously also must be shipped. Or the folks who don’t eat meat because animal slaughter is considered unethical across the board but then take no consideration of the horrendous conditions that laborers here in the US and elsewhere are forced to endure in harvesting other food.

There are no easy solutions, and I was just using (pirating??) the discussion of brushes here to comment on the need to think through the implications of taking this or that stand and at least trying not to be hypocritical through consumption in other parts of our lives.

[brothers]

Thankfully, just as suddenly as it disappeared, I've regained my ability to get a great lather from boar brushes! It seems to be related somehow to the fact that I got rid of my other boar brushes and have bought new ones. In particular, there's a Zenith B15 that seems to be outstanding. So much so that I bought a backup that caught my eye due to the fact it has a solid copper handle. The Zeniths are both beautiful and better in every way as compared to my long gone and not missed Semogue and Omega boar brushes. Wow, that's a provocative thing to say, isn't it? Well, I mean it literally, and have no interest in changing! Long live Zenith!

[fallingwickets]

waiting to read Gary bought a backup's backup

clive

[CMur12]

Now, Gary, though I haven't tried a Zenith brush, I have found no bristle in any way comparable to that found exclusively in the Semogue 1305 and 830 brushes. They are truly super boars!

(Now I suggest you go wash your mouth out with soap. )

- Murray

[brothers]

Different strokes for different folks!

I only mentioned the two specific brushes I got rid of - the cherry wood handle Semogue SOC and the wooden handle Omega 80005. I thought they were both performing admirably until I stumbled onto the Zenith B15 olive wood handle boar. I never anticipated such an immediately noticeable change for the better!

[slackskin]

Adding my two cents to Mike's post above, I believe we each get to draw our own boundaries based on our perceptions of ethical conduct. One person's boundaries need not be the same as another's. Nobody has a right to criticize the other person's ethical choices and boundaries. Their choices are theirs to make, just as my choices are mine to make. It is sad that there are so many who think it is their prerogative to harangue others about their choices and shame them into adopting the views preferred by the person doing the harangue-ing (that may not be a word !!).

[Raze R. Blade]

What about horsehair brushes? Ol' Seabiscuit makes a pretty good brush. The horse hair comes from normal grooming, and does not harm the animal. Horse hair is also not derived from petroleum products. Those wanting a premium brush can buy a High Mountain White Horsehair brush. They are made from a rare breed of horse found only in remote Himalayan valleys.

[CMur12]

What about horsehair brushes? Ol' Seabiscuit makes a pretty good brush. The horse hair comes from normal grooming, and does not harm the animal. Horse hair is also not derived from petroleum products. Those wanting a premium brush can buy a High Mountain White Horsehair brush. They are made from a rare breed of horse found only in remote Himalayan valleys.

That's true about horsehair brushes.

I have a couple of them, but I don't like how they feel or perform.

- Murray