Plisson brush choices

[Troy]

Gents,

I'm hoping some of you experienced with Plisson brushes can weigh in on a few things I'm considering in my next brush. I should mention straight away that the badger hair in all cases would be High Mountain White.

First, size. I prefer a smaller brush. I've been using a Shavemac 21mm brush for about six months and am perfectly happy with that size. I think anything over 24mm is going to be too large for sure, but I don't know about the minimum knot size that'd be good for me. The two sizes in the Plisson that I'm considering are the #12 and the #14. My understanding is that both of these are 22mm knot-size brushes, with the #14 having a greater loft. Those who have used each of these, how would you describe their relative performance in terms of stiffness, softness, and with soaps vs. creams?

Although the horn handled version is a beauty, I'm leaning toward the Ebony handle, well, because I like black. I also don't want to deal with chips and whatnot. Anyone out there with experience with Ebony-handled brushes (in general or specific to Plisson)?

Cheers,
-Troy

[Brett G]

Troy,
I currently have Gordon's Plisson in my possession. I'm not sure if it is a #12 or 14. It has an ebony handle and European White bristles. I believe the knot is supposed to measure 22mm but it looks a little larger and might come in at 23+. Having used it for a few weeks now I will say that it is an outstanding brush. It has the perfect blend of size, bristle stiffness/softenss, and class.

I only have two complaints that keep it from being close to perfect. First, because it has a wood handle they use a metal ring at the base of the neck to keep the wood from splitting. I hate those rings and think they look horrible. If I were to buy a Plisson I would go with the horn handle (available in the same shape) and deal with the possibility of chipping just because I hate that damn ring so much. Second, I prefer a flatter crown like those found on the English brushes (such as Simpson and Rooney) rather than the lightbulb shape of the Plisson. I like to lather in my hand and the flatter crown allows you to do that a bit easier.

As far as durability goes, I believe this brush is at least two years old and seems to be holding up just fine. It is probably not a bad idea to treat a brush with either a wood or horn handle with a bit more care anyway. If you are looking for a luxury brush that can handle a variety of shaving products, a Plisson in this size is an excellent choice.

[northadams]

Troy, I would go with the 14. I have seen them in person and think they are the perfect size (on the medium brush level.) I have a 16 High Mountain White (along with Nathan, Chris F. and any others who want to chime in) and it is one of the better one's out there for sure. But if you like the smaller one's you could buy a 12 but might wonder about a 14. Anything above a 16 gets into that huge Chubby/Polo/Plisson 20 stuff. Nobody I know has a face that big and if you research the forum the bigger brushes are, for most part, a thing of the past. Thank God.

Max

[bernards66]

Troy, My Plisson ( that Brett has borrowed, and reported on above ) is a #14. As he mentioned, the knot is listed at 22mm, but is, in fact, slightly larger then that. This seems often to be the case with their Whites with the classic style handles. Someone else here measured theirs and it came out as 23.5, I think it was. As you say, the #12 supposedly has the same size knot, but a little less loft. This did seem to be the case with the #12s that I've examined. It's conceivable to me that the #12s might be even a little better with hard soaps, especially if the soaps were in those wooden bowls, but for the most part, the performance of the two models should be pretty similiar.

Despite what you said, I would encourage you to reconsider the European Whites. In all respects, the difference between them and the HMWs is minute, yet the price is not. And since you're leaning toward a ebony handle anyway. BTW, are you certain that the HMWs are available with real ebony wood handles? I know that they offer an 'ebony' handle for the HMWs but I don't recall if it's really wood, or just 'ebony' colored. In any case, as Brett mentioned, the handle on mine has been problem free so far. I don't baby it, just treat it with normal care ( I never toss my brushes into hot water, I soak the bristle with hot running water only ).
Regards,
Gordon

[Troy]

Thanks for the input, guys.

Gordon, I hadn't considered whether or not the HMW is available with the Ebony handle, but that's an excellent point.

I've examined some European Whites and HMWs side by side in Colonial Drug and you are right - it's tough to tell the difference. I think I even commented on this in an earlier post.

Regarding knot size, I used a Kent BK8 for a few months last summer, and I found that one to be too large (26mm, I believe). Lots of shaving cream in the nose. However, this may have more to do with the severe blooming that happens with the Kent brushes than with the specific knot size.

One of the questions I have concerns the effect of the greater loft of the 14. Does this result in a "floppier", or less stiff, brush head?

-Troy

[Brett G]

Troy,
Gordon's brush is not the slightest bit floppy. As I said, the European White version is a fantastic blend of stiffness/softness.

[bernards66]

Troy, Hardly. If a #14 Plisson White is not stiff enough for you, then you may as well just cut right to the chase and get a Simpson CH3 Super, cause nothing else will suit. Floppy it ain't!
Regards,
Gordon

[Cliff]

Troy, I can recommend heartily the Plisson # 12 in European White. With a 22mm knot and you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference between HMW and Euro white.

See my thread below, under 'Brushes' titled "Finally Arrived"., (has pictures)

Cliff

[drmoss_ca]

I have a Plisson #12 in HMW with a tortoiseshell handle, and it is a perfectly good brush. I use it most on soaps.

Chris

[Aty]

I have a Plisson #12 in HMW with a tortoiseshell handle, and it is a perfectly good brush. I use it most on soaps.

Chris

I have to agree. Mine sits on my shelve only about six months, however it is extremely versatile brush for shave when I have time to load it with DRH soap. (I bought far too many of those long time ago). Plisson cream, dense as it is, supports somewhat quicker shave. That one was received with the brush as a promotional gesture.

I think Plisson doesn't get enough praise on the internet, but I love it. BTW, I also shave for over past decade with Simpsons Chubby 2 BB, and love it as well, despite having totally different shaving experience with it. It's a one greedy brush.

I was wondering if someone on the forum has solid experience with Plisson' European Grey knot in size 12? Plisson is describing knot as being "nervous", but I have no idea what they mean by that, and Googling for "nervous knot" obviously didn't get me anywhere.

Thanks
A.

[drmoss_ca]

Oddly enough, I eventually decided that HMW was not living up to the best of the old Simpson brushes, and gave it to Gordon.

[Aty]

Oddly enough, I eventually decided that HMW was not living up to the best of the old Simpson brushes, and gave it to Gordon.

Hmm, interesting. Bear in mind, I have merely 4 brushes in my daily rotation (drying cycle). After reading several of your posts, I gather you probably own significantly more brushes of various makes, and therefore yours judgement is inevitably at another level. Maybe after couple of years of practice before shaving mirror, I may develop a different position over one I hold now. If there is a problem, I alone own responsibility for any mess. May I ask somewhat personal (clever) question; should you have to reduce your inventory to a single brush, you follow the end..?

If I have to guess, probably there is not a such thing as a single favourite brush. State of mind, and choice of soaping media in your cabined could have something to do with a choice of two or three brushes.

[drmoss_ca]

Only one? My answer will have changed over the years. A long time ago it would have been a Shavemac XXL, back in the days when their hair had hooked ends and thicker shafts than the silky stuff they use now. But the brush is simply too big for me now. I would probably have next answered with a Somerset Simpson CH2 in Best, which is very similar to the old XXL but a little smaller. Probably the brush I'd pick today is one of the Apothecary Shop prototypes that became Rooney Finests when Lee Sabini felt he had the right hair. This brush has hair of the old HMW type. Soft and silky creamy white tips on top of sturdy firm shafts. It's not the brush I use most, but that's because I don't want to risk the tragedy of using it wantonly and having it shed all its hair! Here it is:



A later Apothecary Shop brush has different hair (which some will prefer) with whiter but harsher tips, a looser pack and free flow-through, and darker wavy/wrinkled shafts. It's very good at making lather on a hard soap (just the way a soft and loosely-packed brush like a BK4 does), but doesn't feel as nice on the face.



And when the Rooney Finests came out, they had hair between the two, but closer to the second type. The prices they sell for now are quite terrifying, especially when I consider the first of the three shown here is a much better brush for my tastes!



Everyone I speak to in the brush world tells me such hair cannot be bought now. I'd guess it takes a mature badger who has lived many a year in a cold climate to make the desirable hair with soft cream tips, and stiff, brown, straighter shafts. The evil men in China who farm badgers for their pelts could set aside some animals to mature at a cold site and make it available again if they wanted (and when a secondhand used Rooney sells for <$500USD, why wouldn't they?), but I've got too many brushes as it is and I wouldn't be in the market to buy one.

[Aty]

Oh thanks. Sounds like nostalgic walk through era now long time gone.

I love all my little ones, just four (for now).

Postman a few minutes ago brought another puck of Meißner Tremonia Dark Limes rasierseife. (Good pick me up). Now I have to make my mind which brush will have the honour of first dance. Maybe I will give my Plisson HMW #12 chance to defend its true French pedigree. Fair is fair.

[dridiot]

Only one? My answer will have changed over the years. A long time ago it would have been a Shavemac XXL, back in the days when their hair had hooked ends and thicker shafts than the silky stuff they use now. But the brush is simply too big for me now. I would probably have next answered with a Somerset Simpson CH2 in Best, which is very similar to the old XXL but a little smaller. Probably the brush I'd pick today is one of the Apothecary Shop prototypes that became Rooney Finests when Lee Sabini felt he had the right hair. This brush has hair of the old HMW type. Soft and silky creamy white tips on top of sturdy firm shafts. It's not the brush I use most, but that's because I don't want to risk the tragedy of using it wantonly and having it shed all its hair! Here it is:



A later Apothecary Shop brush has different hair (which some will prefer) with whiter but harsher tips, a looser pack and free flow-through, and darker wavy/wrinkled shafts. It's very good at making lather on a hard soap (just the way a soft and loosely-packed brush like a BK4 does), but doesn't feel as nice on the face.



And when the Rooney Finests came out, they had hair between the two, but closer to the second type. The prices they sell for now are quite terrifying, especially when I consider the first of the three shown here is a much better brush for my tastes!



Everyone I speak to in the brush world tells me such hair cannot be bought now. I'd guess it takes a mature badger who has lived many a year in a cold climate to make the desirable hair with soft cream tips, and stiff, brown, straighter shafts. The evil men in China who farm badgers for their pelts could set aside some animals to mature at a cold site and make it available again if they wanted (and when a secondhand used Rooney sells for <$500USD, why wouldn't they?), but I've got too many brushes as it is and I wouldn't be in the market to buy one.

Ahhh.... that Somerset Best CH2/3 hair... is good value at that time for that kind of quality. No doubt.

[dridiot]

Gents,

I'm hoping some of you experienced with Plisson brushes can weigh in on a few things I'm considering in my next brush. I should mention straight away that the badger hair in all cases would be High Mountain White.

First, size. I prefer a smaller brush. I've been using a Shavemac 21mm brush for about six months and am perfectly happy with that size. I think anything over 24mm is going to be too large for sure, but I don't know about the minimum knot size that'd be good for me. The two sizes in the Plisson that I'm considering are the #12 and the #14. My understanding is that both of these are 22mm knot-size brushes, with the #14 having a greater loft. Those who have used each of these, how would you describe their relative performance in terms of stiffness, softness, and with soaps vs. creams?

Although the horn handled version is a beauty, I'm leaning toward the Ebony handle, well, because I like black. I also don't want to deal with chips and whatnot. Anyone out there with experience with Ebony-handled brushes (in general or specific to Plisson)?

Cheers,
-Troy

Troy,
When buying a high priced Plisson HMW in sizes 14 and up, it would be best to purchase in person, whenever possible.
The hair on these are really somethin different., glossy black shaft, ALMOST luminous tips.
The strenght of individual hair shaft is in a league of its own,
IF you find the right one.

I have seen quality differ especially in sizes 10-14 HMW brushes.
Horn handled brushes will require more care when using.

Regards,