Two Bands Forever!
Two Bands Forever!
I have been gathering all my two bands from here and there (one has to keep a stock of proper brushes at each domicile) and have bought a few new ones to round out the collection.
Let's start with some Somerset Simpson Chubby Bests.
The Best hair used in those days and in these brushes (a contemporary CH1 is a three-banded brown brush) was a slightly coarser grade of the Super hair also used in the bigger brushes, with a few light shafted hairs visible in the lower darker band. Solid stiff hair with an ever-so-slight scratch at the tips. The 1st and 3rd brushes from left to right have been used, and in the flesh have handles that are a rosy pink these days, quite different from brushes 2 and 4, which are ivory coloured.
All the photos below are Super hair.
The big guns:
The P8 is a modern Simfix, but the T4 and the PJ3 are pure Zummerzet. These three are my very best brushes - sheer pleasure to use. Soft tips, no scratch, easy lathering and pure sensual joy on the face. The two banded Simfix is every bit as good as the older brushes, and I shan't hold its acquaintance with some bleach against it.
The challengers:
A Rooney style 1, large, finest and two prototypes with the Olde Apothecary Shop brand (also sold as Morris & Forndran). The OAS in the middle is extremely dense, whilst the Rooney is a little looser, and the OAS on the right has a Kent-like degree of airiness. It was the stinkiest brush I have ever tamed. The first two are right up there with the big Simpsons, with just a little more softness at the tips and a little more flex in the shafts.
Juniors:
A Somerset E3, and Simfix era Colonel XL2, 57/Douglas, and a Grosvenor. I can't tell if there is any difference between the last three except for handle shape; they are as near as makes no difference in knot size and loft, and all have high grade hair. You can see how the tips of the E3 are slightly yellow - partly through use and partly because they were not bleached. I think the others were. The Grosvenor is barely over half the price of the 57, and is essentially the same in use, but doesn't have the Simpson sticker. It would be my entry for the 'best brush under $100' thread. Both the 57 and the Grosvenor are still available through Phil at Bullgoose.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander:
Two Shavemac D01 two bands, with 24mm and 26mm knots. The densest of all the brushes, these two concede nothing to the Simpsons in use. I prefer the Simpson shapes in the handles, and I prefer the look of a bulb shape rather than a fan (I thought I ordered bulb but this is what came - no matter they are good). More expensive than the Grosvenor, but bigger knots, a little longer loft, and considerably more densely packed. Apparently there are no restrictions on supply at present. I don't know how Bernd got his hands on a large supply of this hair these days, but I doubt if it will remain available for ever.
So what am I doing showing you these goodies when I have been using an Omega boar brush for two years? There is no doubt that it is easier to make a lather with tiny bubbles in it with a badger brush, and such a lather is more like a stiff foam than the creamy lather with fewer and larger bubbles that comes from a boar brush. I prefer the badger lather. My conscience worries about the sustainability of the badger population in China, where wild badgers are trapped rather than bred in fur farms. So, like Lancelot Gobbo in The Merchant of Venice, I have an angel on one shoulder and a demon on the other. I'm human. Forgive me.
Chris
Let's start with some Somerset Simpson Chubby Bests.
The Best hair used in those days and in these brushes (a contemporary CH1 is a three-banded brown brush) was a slightly coarser grade of the Super hair also used in the bigger brushes, with a few light shafted hairs visible in the lower darker band. Solid stiff hair with an ever-so-slight scratch at the tips. The 1st and 3rd brushes from left to right have been used, and in the flesh have handles that are a rosy pink these days, quite different from brushes 2 and 4, which are ivory coloured.
All the photos below are Super hair.
The big guns:
The P8 is a modern Simfix, but the T4 and the PJ3 are pure Zummerzet. These three are my very best brushes - sheer pleasure to use. Soft tips, no scratch, easy lathering and pure sensual joy on the face. The two banded Simfix is every bit as good as the older brushes, and I shan't hold its acquaintance with some bleach against it.
The challengers:
A Rooney style 1, large, finest and two prototypes with the Olde Apothecary Shop brand (also sold as Morris & Forndran). The OAS in the middle is extremely dense, whilst the Rooney is a little looser, and the OAS on the right has a Kent-like degree of airiness. It was the stinkiest brush I have ever tamed. The first two are right up there with the big Simpsons, with just a little more softness at the tips and a little more flex in the shafts.
Juniors:
A Somerset E3, and Simfix era Colonel XL2, 57/Douglas, and a Grosvenor. I can't tell if there is any difference between the last three except for handle shape; they are as near as makes no difference in knot size and loft, and all have high grade hair. You can see how the tips of the E3 are slightly yellow - partly through use and partly because they were not bleached. I think the others were. The Grosvenor is barely over half the price of the 57, and is essentially the same in use, but doesn't have the Simpson sticker. It would be my entry for the 'best brush under $100' thread. Both the 57 and the Grosvenor are still available through Phil at Bullgoose.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander:
Two Shavemac D01 two bands, with 24mm and 26mm knots. The densest of all the brushes, these two concede nothing to the Simpsons in use. I prefer the Simpson shapes in the handles, and I prefer the look of a bulb shape rather than a fan (I thought I ordered bulb but this is what came - no matter they are good). More expensive than the Grosvenor, but bigger knots, a little longer loft, and considerably more densely packed. Apparently there are no restrictions on supply at present. I don't know how Bernd got his hands on a large supply of this hair these days, but I doubt if it will remain available for ever.
So what am I doing showing you these goodies when I have been using an Omega boar brush for two years? There is no doubt that it is easier to make a lather with tiny bubbles in it with a badger brush, and such a lather is more like a stiff foam than the creamy lather with fewer and larger bubbles that comes from a boar brush. I prefer the badger lather. My conscience worries about the sustainability of the badger population in China, where wild badgers are trapped rather than bred in fur farms. So, like Lancelot Gobbo in The Merchant of Venice, I have an angel on one shoulder and a demon on the other. I'm human. Forgive me.
Chris
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
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Well, penance, sir, penance, and sending me one of the Shavemacs will do nicely. Curious you posted this, because, well, dang it, I think I want a new brush and a larger one at that. Can't convince myself to go scour the threads about two band vs. three band and the pre-Vulfix Simpsons vs. the new ones and all. And then the problems with High Mountain White vs. Super and all that. I saw a thread about the Manchurian but Peter saw it and well it is up to $305 already.
So, I will read the responses to this thread and maybe something in the $150 price range will do me nicely.
So, I will read the responses to this thread and maybe something in the $150 price range will do me nicely.
Re: Two Bands Forever!
China is not known for environmental stewardship. I wouldn't be the least surprised if their badger population was hunted to extinction. It's all about the profits. Other than financial considerations, that's one reason I'm happy with my two sub-$100 brushes.drmoss_ca wrote: My conscience worries about the sustainability of the badger population in China, where wild badgers are trapped rather than bred in fur farms.
Chris
Ed
great post chris. some nice brushes you have there and always interested in hearing detailed comparisons after extended tries like that.
can't believe that you haven't used anything but boar for the last 2 years with these little beauties at your disposal!
can't believe that you haven't used anything but boar for the last 2 years with these little beauties at your disposal!
Remember: this is all just wasted time and lives talking nonsense to strangers about pieces of metal, hair and chemical compounds.
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Wonderful thread....thank you for posting. I absolutely love my t3 in two band super and figured I would buy a 'regular' super t3 as a head brush....how much difference can there be I asked myself. Turns out quite a lot. Most importantly to me, the 2 band splays more easily and secondly the 2 band is noticeably softer on the skin. The same applies to the t4's when compared with one another, but for me even the prehistoric 2 band t4 isnt as nice as the t3 because of the splay issue. All in all though, 2 bands seems nicer than their regular super counterparts.....the big problem now is finding them. Ive only manged to get one t3 in 2 band.....all the usual suspects are sold out and have waiting/wish lists
Clive
Clive
de gustibus non est disputandum
If I could just have the P8, T4, and PJ3, I'd be the happiest camper ever. Thanks for the eye candy.
Gary
SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
Re: Two Bands Forever!
i will no longer buy a badger brush. i will go on record now. i won't support exterminating another species and i certainly resist supporting the chinese.kronos9 wrote:China is not known for environmental stewardship. I wouldn't be the least surprised if their badger population was hunted to extinction. It's all about the profits. Other than financial considerations, that's one reason I'm happy with my two sub-$100 brushes.drmoss_ca wrote: My conscience worries about the sustainability of the badger population in China, where wild badgers are trapped rather than bred in fur farms.
Chris
i just have one more to buy. that new tubby coming from fido. then i'm done!
Gil
futur/EJ357/ gillette redtip
iridium ,blue IP
thater, shavemac.anchorset/tgn,sr3226
dirty bird
and a prayer
futur/EJ357/ gillette redtip
iridium ,blue IP
thater, shavemac.anchorset/tgn,sr3226
dirty bird
and a prayer
Yeah, me too! Plus a Vulfix 41 and a Plisson 16 HMW, and then, that's probably going to be it, maybe.
Gary
SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
SOTD 99%: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, soaps & creams, synthetic / badger brushes, Colonial General razor, Kai & Schick blades, straight razors any time, Superior 70 aftershave splash + menthol + 444
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Aaron, Well, Plisson can't seem to either....or more likely, won't. Afterall, they kind of pioneered the bulb shape and continue to stand by their generations old tradition. Why Vulfix seems so enamored with seriously bulb shaped crowns all of the sudden, I have no idea. Perhaps, if Gary visits them he can convince them to back off of that a bit.
Regards,
Gordon
Regards,
Gordon
Re: Two Bands Forever!
A fun post, looking at all those beautiful brushes. What a great collection you have!
Wikipedia is hardly the last word in accuracy, but this was on the "Badger" page:
This is interesting. Is there reliable information regarding this? Because of the ethical implications, it would be nice to know how these animals are treated.My conscience worries about the sustainability of the badger population in China, where wild badgers are trapped rather than bred in fur farms.
Wikipedia is hardly the last word in accuracy, but this was on the "Badger" page:
StuartCommercial use
Badger pelts
Today badgers are commercially raised for their hair, which is harvested to make shaving brushes. Virtually all commercial badger hair comes from mainland China, which supplies knots of hair in three grades to brush makers in both China and Europe. In rural Northern China, badgers multiply to the point of becoming a crop nuisance, and village cooperatives are licensed by the national government to hunt badgers and process their hair.
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Tusk!...more shave porn....clear evidence of serious obsessive-compulsive acting out....sigh....and from the administrator of this whole show too....and a doctor to boot. What IS it with these medical guys?...Peter...this...who can explain it?
Of course it is a king hell collection of impressive brushes, no doubt about that....sheeesh!
Regards,
Gordon
Of course it is a king hell collection of impressive brushes, no doubt about that....sheeesh!
Regards,
Gordon
Great thread Chris! Nice to read you eventually returned to "badger place"...
What about your opinion on Simpsons two band super vs Rooney finest?
Imo they are about equal, maybe finest being a tad more soft.
On "that other wetshaving board" i was almost ridiculed for stating that both are "quintessentially" identical (apart from the density of the loft, but this doesn't say anything about the bristle quality ie both fine gauged bristles with a lot of backbone and soft tips).
What about your opinion on Simpsons two band super vs Rooney finest?
Imo they are about equal, maybe finest being a tad more soft.
On "that other wetshaving board" i was almost ridiculed for stating that both are "quintessentially" identical (apart from the density of the loft, but this doesn't say anything about the bristle quality ie both fine gauged bristles with a lot of backbone and soft tips).
Peter
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It's always difficult to determine from photographs (there's nothing like physically examining a product), but from what I can visually ascertain in this instance the lion's share of those brushes are actually three banded knots pushed down into the stem of the handles.
It's a mistake often made when people try to categorize a knot type. If you look close enough you will see exactly what I mean.
I hope I'm not raining on a parade here?
It's a mistake often made when people try to categorize a knot type. If you look close enough you will see exactly what I mean.
I hope I'm not raining on a parade here?
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Mark,Vulfix Old Original wrote:It's always difficult to determine from photographs (there's nothing like physically examining a product), but from what I can visually ascertain in this instance the lion's share of those brushes are actually three banded knots pushed down into the stem of the handles.
It's a mistake often made when people try to categorize a knot type. If you look close enough you will see exactly what I mean.
I hope I'm not raining on a parade here?
Which ones are actually "genuine" two bands in your opinion?
Peter
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In my opinion and without the benefit of actually physically examining the brushes at close quarters, the genuine two banders would be:
The PL8 Super
The Vulfix alongside the Rooney
The X2L
The 57
The Grosvenor
Possibles, but not conclusive:
The Rooney
The Shavemacs
Hope this helps ...
Mark
The PL8 Super
The Vulfix alongside the Rooney
The X2L
The 57
The Grosvenor
Possibles, but not conclusive:
The Rooney
The Shavemacs
Hope this helps ...
Mark
drP wrote:Mark,Vulfix Old Original wrote:It's always difficult to determine from photographs (there's nothing like physically examining a product), but from what I can visually ascertain in this instance the lion's share of those brushes are actually three banded knots pushed down into the stem of the handles.
It's a mistake often made when people try to categorize a knot type. If you look close enough you will see exactly what I mean.
I hope I'm not raining on a parade here?
Which ones are actually "genuine" two bands in your opinion?
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Which happen to be the ones made by you! The brush next to the Rooney says Olde Apothecary Shop on the other side and was bought from Lee Sabini. Is it still a Vulfix?Vulfix Old Original wrote:In my opinion and without the benefit of actually physically examining the brushes at close quarters, the genuine two banders would be:
The PL8 Super
The Vulfix alongside the Rooney
The X2L
The 57
The Grosvenor
My impression is that all two bands are the same as three bands, except for the fact that the hair has a relatively longer black portion, often allowing it to extend down to the handle of the brush and hiding the relatively short light part that would be next to the pelt. It so happens that these hairs tend to have thicker and stiffer shafts, and the tips are lighter and softer, and this is why they have always been highly regarded. My belief is that one requires a larger and older badger to find this hair. My suspicion is that the recent rarity of this hair represents population pressure on the Chinese wild badgers.
No, you're not raining on any parade - we love a good debate, and are always thirsty for information.
Chris
"Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse."
Pierre-Simon de Laplace
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I shoot from the hip and say what I see ... I'm trying to be honest here, nothing more.
We've had lots of shapes copied down the years by the way from differing parties.
We've had lots of shapes copied down the years by the way from differing parties.
drmoss_ca wrote:Which happen to be the ones made by you! The brush next to the Rooney says Olde Apothecary Shop on the other side and was bought from Lee Sabini. Is it still a Vulfix?Vulfix Old Original wrote:In my opinion and without the benefit of actually physically examining the brushes at close quarters, the genuine two banders would be:
The PL8 Super
The Vulfix alongside the Rooney
The X2L
The 57
The Grosvenor
My impression is that all two bands are the same as three bands, except for the fact that the hair has a relatively longer black portion, often allowing it to extend down to the handle of the brush and hiding the relatively short light part that would be next to the pelt. It so happens that these hairs tend to have thicker and stiffer shafts, and the tips are lighter and softer, and this is why they have always been highly regarded. My belief is that one requires a larger and older badger to find this hair. My suspicion is that the recent rarity of this hair represents population pressure on the Chinese wild badgers.
No, you're not raining on any parade - we love a good debate, and are always thirsty for information.
Chris
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