Modern Business Practices

[drmoss_ca]

It has come to our attention that Classic Shaving have registered a look-alike domain name for people trying to visit http://www.fendrihan.com - you'll find that http://fendrihans.com/ will be redirected to Classic Shaving (curiously, http://www.fendrihans.com/ does not, you get a domain name parking site). Speculation has it that this might be retaliation for the operator of Fendrihan also having an eBay store called The Classic Shaving Store. The operator of Fendrihan's has had his IP address blocked from visiting the classicshaving.com site, though it is not clear why.
Classic Shaving have been around a long time, in internet terms, and enjoyed a great reputation when Ray was in charge. Fendrihan's is a new online store based in Canada, and of value to those of us up here who dislike paying duty and waiting 3-4 weeks for delivery. In the interests of full disclosure I have spent far too much money over the years at classicshaving and have not, as yet, bought from Fendrihan's. Nonetheless, I have to criticise Classic Shaving for this act, which will only serve to punish innocent shavers who make a typo. I don't believe that classic shaving are likely to have their business significantly harmed by the existence of Fendrihan's, and anybody should be able to tell an eBay store from the classic shaving website. One cannot trademark a common word, and they might just as well be upset at someone using a phrase like 'wet shaving'. I call on Classic Shaving to stop this kind of action (there may be other look-alike URLs that redirect to them for all we know). In the meantime the moderators are discussing whether to remove references to Classic Shaving from our home page and where-to-shop page. Customers might want to consider all this when deciding where they will place their next order.

Chris

[infotech]

Thanks for the information. That kind of URL hijacking is of the lowest form.

[Zach]

FWIW, I have bought from both Classic Shaving, and from the eBay store that shares that name, and I have been delighted with both.

I think that the great, great majority of people who register typo and look-alike domain names are jackasses, essentially.

And why block an IP address? I would imagine paranoia, the fear of some sort of revenge act (that can easily be accomplished from home, or with the use of a proxy).

While I do agree that this is (if the speculation is true) childish behavior, I also feel that it's none of my business, however, as an administrator of a shaving forum, I too would question if I would want to make a recommendation.

[Sam]

I think that the great, great majority of people who register typo and look-alike domain names are jackasses, essentially.

I too would question if I would want to make a recommendation.

Zach, fair question. We have a link to classicshaving on the home page. Ray was an early supporter of SMF and he was very helpful when Wetshavers was started and before SMF was given birth. He personally would answer questions, much like Charles Roberts at Enchante. He had a shave soap that was maybe one of the few real alternatives to ordering a British Shave soap in the days before SMF members ferreted out other shave soaps from around the world, like Arko. This was also before QED and others had their cold pour soaps. I used his soaps quite a bit, they were much cheaper than Trumpers.

Anyway, discussions should be had whether such a link should continue to be offered. Is this scenario fair play? I would think that having members of this forum recommend a vendor is a great benefit to the vendor. We take this information and we go and populate other websites. I have seen our forum mentioned at Mensessentials, Askandyaboutclothes, Basenotes, style forum, and a few other places, and of course, when you google a term, sometimes a link to one of our posts comes up.

[hookem11]

I have purchased goods from Fendrihan in Brampton Ontario. I was very pleased with the service I received and I will definitely give them further business whenever possible. I prefer to deal with Canadian companies for reasons of expediency and to avoid the duty and brokerage fees of the shipping companies. We need to encourage small Canadian companies in this business as there are far too few of them. I have never dealt with Classic Shaving and in light of this foolishness I doubt I ever will.

[mantic]

Poor Ray must be rolling in his grave....

[Hoos]

I have purchased from Classic Shaving in the past.

I can't criticize the company or the products received from them.

However, engaging in such questionable tactics calls into question being able to trust a company or person who engages in such tactics.

Probably many of these companies are running on a margin and business is tight (probably tighter now, especially for more expensive items).

That, however, doesn't excuse engaging in a somewhat shady practice of web misdirection. It smacks of "bait and switch" tactics.

Hopefully, Classic Shaving will rethink their current policy.

[ScottS]

It does seem rather childish, but I must say that when I saw that eBay store name some time ago, I thought that it wasn't a very nice way for someone to cash in on any good will the Duponts may have generated over the years, intentional or not, and I have seen some posters confusing the two. It might seem a bit of a stretch to think that any North American company in this particular business would not know of classicshaving.

I would suspect that there has been a history of conversation, to say the least, between these two businesses over that storefront name.

Trademark infringement is a much bigger deal to people that have spent time and money developing a trademark than people might realize. My first exposure to such issues was when a high school publication I was affiliated with, ShoreBill, received a cease and desist from Playbill!

[TRBeck]

Hmmm...well, that's an unfortunate and, I think, poor decision on the part of Classic Shaving. I can only say that they have been a terrific vendor to work with when I've shopped there, and I didn't start shopping there until after Ray was gone. I'm a little disheartened to hear about this practice.

I don't think they're in the wrong to be upset about "The Classic Shaving Store" on eBay; you can't trademark a common word, but as you said, they've been in business a good long while and I would think any new wetshaving vendor would be aware of them and the reputation they enjoy, and aware of the fact that an eBay store with the same name would probably have a leg up, so to speak. I would think it disingenuous if Fendrihan's (from whom I've never bought anything, but who enjoys an excellent reputation as well) said they were unaware of the fact that they were likely reaping the benefits of people's familiarity with Ray's business.

I wonder what - if any - private communication has gone on between the two businesses. That is, did Classic Shaving ever tell Alfred they wished he would change the name of his eBay store? Did Alfred explain why or how he chose that name for his store? and so on. If there has been no previous behind-the-scenes effort to resolve the issue, then this is really bad form on Classic's part. Regardless, it's not the right way to go about things, but I can at least understand their anger if they have politely explained their position to Alfred and been ignored or refuted.

EDIT: Say, everything I said was said already while I was trying to say it.

Regards,

[Ambrosia]

of the 2 i've only ever brought stuff from 'classic shaving' and i wasnt happy with their service, they messed up the declaration on the customs paper work which meant i had to pay as much in taxes as i had paid for the product, when i complained they said local taxes were my responsibility, when i pointed out the reason they were so high was their fault they never responded. I never so much as went on their website again

[notthesharpest]

Definitely a situation where (whatever the law may say) morally both parties are in the wrong.

Fendrihan should call his ebay store Fendrihan and not steal someone else's name. And in the context of the tiny world of shaving retailers, calling himself classic is stealing their name, plain and simple, whatever technicalities or justifications there may be in law.

The childish and stupid domain theft by Classic is almost justified. Almost. They do have firmly on their side the classic child's protest "But he started it!"

I hope this can be resolved by Fendrihan calling himself by his own store name on Ebay and no longer misrepresenting himself as Classic, and the real Classic giving up the domain name they subsequently stole.

Bad news all round.

[Baloosh]

Just goes to show you that "www." is, indeed, not deprecated.

[bernards66]

David's scenario is what I would like to see happen as well. While 'tit for tat' may be bad form, I would like to see the situation corrected on BOTH ends.
Regards,
Gordon

[Rich53]

It appears that Classic Shaving is in fact retaliating for the Classic Shaving ebay store. If that is so, IMO, Classic Shaving is as guilty if not more so then Fendrihan. Retaliation is unprofessional and does not solve the problem. It is however, childish.

regards,

[divotmax]

It would seem that Fendrihan is a distinctive name and should be easy enough to identify and protect, particularly for an internet store. Creating a storefront which too closely resembles another known dealer is just asking for problems. However, classicshaving intentionally redirecting traffic, as has been noted already, but creating another similar name to an existing business with ony one letter difference is also questionably ethical. It's just like overusing the term "vintage" in the name of a company; that is too common a descriptive term and just leads to mistakes and confusion.

I also hope this can be resolved quickly before the reputation of both stores suffers needlessly. Personally I would be pissed if I were either redirected to another site than the one I thought I typed in, or if I inadvertently purchased a product from a different vendor than I thought I was dealing with because of a too-similar name. I might not use either vendor in the future.

No wonder "business" and "ethics" are rarely used in the same sentence any more.

[ThePossum]

Bought my Merkur HD from Classic Shaving. Found them to be a good vendor to deal with as have quite a few guys here at SMF.

While Fendrihan's is a new vendor to most of us their use of the term "Classic Shaving Store" be it on eBay or anywhere else may not be illegal but it sure as heck is unethical. If they wanted to use the term then they should have used "Fendrihan's Classic Shaving Store" and made a disclaimer that their eBay store in not in anyway affiliated with Classic Shaving.

Now with that said I have to say that what Classic Shaving did is not right either. They are acting like a little child when he thinks some one has wronged him. All this action will do is cause further animosity with the folks at Fendrihan. The Classic Shaving people should have made a statement about what Fendrihan did by using the Classic Shaving name. Maybe, just maybe, that type of publicity in the wetshaving community would have cause Fendrihan to change the name of the eBay store.

Now what should the mods do? Since there are problems for Canadian shavers getting supplies from the US of A in a timely and inexpensive manner and Fendrihan's can help our Canadian shaving brothers get around this problem, I suggest the mods advertise or at least put both stores on the website in the proper place. Making sure that they let the SMF members know that Fendrihans is mainly for the Canucks that frequent SMF.

[drmoss_ca]

We seem to be agreed that there are two problems:
1. Fendrihan should not have used the title 'The Classic Shaving Store' on eBay.
2. Classic Shaving have no business redirecting Fendrihan's customers by use of a look-alike URL.

Both problems are easily corrected if the two businesses are willing to do what is best for the customers. Perhaps they will do so?

Chris

[jtpca]

Let's face it, an ebay store is a somewhat different niche than a regular internet website. A Google search demonstrates how Classicshaving.com is not unfairly impeded by Fendrihan's presence. If Classic Shaving did have a grievance, it could have been dealt with via potential mediation from ebay.

Though we should be clear... we are speculating on the motives of Classic Shaving at this point. One fact that is clear is the unscrupulous move of stealing a variance of one’s domain... which is just that, unscrupulous.

Classic Shaving has lost the potential of any my business.

[Squire]

I'll reserve judgment on this for the time being. I had great respect for Ray.

[Barbarosa]

We seem to be agreed that there are two problems:
1. Fendrihan should not have used the title 'The Classic Shaving Store' on eBay.
2. Classic Shaving have no business redirecting Fendrihan's customers by use of a look-alike URL.

Both problems are easily corrected if the two businesses are willing to do what is best for the customers. Perhaps they will do so?

Chris

Hello,

I just want to point out:
1. the EBay name has been changed several months ago. It was changed back to the original name (which I agree was an unfortunate idea) yesterday after founding out about the URL "redirect". I have no problem to naming the EBay store Fendrihan (done).
2. Classic shaving is a rather general name, Fendrihan is a family name. Classicshaving.com never contacted me, even once, about this issue.
3. I have the right to the www.classicshaving.ca, however I did not use it exactly because of such issues.
4. I'm not able to see the Fendrihans.com redirect because the redirect cannot be viewed from my IP address (my IP address has been excluded). This makes me believe that retaliation was not the scope of the redirect.

Regards,
Alfred